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Session 9

1. In what ways have you experienced what you thought might be the “voice of
God,” either through experience or emotion? How certain can you be that it
was in fact God’s voice?

A: The first time I prayed and asked for forgiveness was an overwhelming feeling. For what seemed like no reason, I dropped by my bedside and began praying. I believe this to be God calling me to be obedient and to follow Him. Other than that, I haven’t really experienced God. I think that He has called me at times to study the word and He has led me to people that have helped with my walk with Him. I can only know it’s God’s voice by praying and studying the word and making sure that whatever it is that I feel he’s asking me to do is also in accordance with the bible.

2. Many people become more desirous to hear the “voice of God” outside of
Scripture when there are difficulties in their lives. What is the danger in this?
Explain.

A: Being able to recognize God’s voice when you are desperate. If the only time you listen for God is during difficult times, you may fail to recognize Him vs. our enemies. When one is desperate, I believe this may open a door to evil, and it may even seem like good advice, and may work out, but it won’t be the voice of God you were listening to. One should lay down their lives at all times, to pray often during good times and bad, so that we know what is God’s will and voice, and what is not.

3. How have you been mislead by what you thought was God’s voice? In what
ways did this confuse you?

A: I have not heard God’s voice enough, I have not prayed enough, and I am not a person who takes advice easily. Even if God is telling me something, I generally take a long time to determine that it is, in fact, God’s will. When wrong decisions in life are made, I know they are mine, and I am responsible for them. The closest I came to hearing what I though was God’s voice and I believe strongly it wasn’t, was when I was almost converted to Mormonism before I became a Christian. I was searching for answers, and I was surrounded by Mormons. They talked very convincingly, and I felt that it was the right way to go. Fortunately, the Good Lord provided me with a definite answer later on, using the Mormons as the tool to show me the right way.

4. Hard cessationists have been falsely accused of denying that God can work
miracles today, when in reality they do not deny that God can work miracles,
but that God gifts particular people to work miracles. A hard cessationist may
pray for God to miraculously heal someone of cancer just as hopefully as a
continuationist. Does this clear up some misunderstanding? Explain.

A: As opposed to God using people to do His miracles, He now may use the Holy Spirit to do it. Continuationists believe that God still uses people to perform miracles, whereas cessationists believe God uses other means to perform the same miracles.

5. A verified prophet is one who performs an incredible sign or wonder, leaving
no doubt in the minds of the observer that he or she is a prophet. Have you
ever witnessed this? Explain.

A: No, I have never seen this personally. I haven’t ever seen anyone speaking in tongues, healing anyone, or performing other miracles. This doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen, I just haven’t witnessed it myself.

6. God speaks in many different ways. The argument of this lesson is that we
cannot be certain that we are hearing “God’s voice” unless it is verified
through rightly interpreted Scripture or a verified prophet. How important
does this make our study of Scripture? Explain.

A: We cannot be fooled nearly as easily if we study and know the scripture. There are all sorts of quacks out there that lead people astray, and they get away with it due to the ignorance people have of scripture. They may also get away with it due to the number of people that refute the Bible, yet feel there is a God out there.

7. How do you often “put God in a box” in your own life? Explain.

A: I don’t think I put God in a box in any way. I have said that I’m still early enough in my walk and without traditions from any particular church that I am cautiously open to all ideas. I think God can perform many miracles and does so. He may even use people to do so. I don’t know. God asks us to trust in Him, so that is what I attempt to do.

8. How was your thinking most challenged by the lesson? Explain.

A: I wasn’t really challenged in this one as much as I was hoping to have a concrete answer to such subjects as the legitimacy of tongues and other charismatic traits. I was very skeptical of them, but more and more I find that there MAY be some legitimacy to them. I do think that there are many who “fake” it, in order to fit in, and that others are genuine. I haven’t got a clear answer yet. I’ll keep praying.

1. In what ways have you experienced what you thought might be the “voice of God,” either through experience or emotion? How certain can you be that it was in fact God’s voice?

I dont know if I've experienced God's voice. There have been times where i have come across scripture unexpectedly (like in an e-mail or daily word thing) that seemed to strike me or perfectly answer a question I had or address a situation. other than that there is only one thing i can think of and that is a time where words just poured into my head, i had been trying to understand something and it just happened and it made sense against scriputre too. It didn't seem to come from my own ming because i was struggling then suddenly had clarity and loads of words and thoughts streaming in my head in perfect sequence. The scriptures standing out could have been coincidence so I guess i would have to check the context to see if it really applied to what i was thinking about and in regards to the other experience, i checked scripture already. I don't know how you could be certain.

2. Many people become more desirous to hear the “voice of God” outside of Scripture when there are difficulties in their lives. What is the danger in this? Explain.

Well if it is outside of scripture then, even if you really do hear God's voice, your automatically cutting the chances of interpreting the message right by a huge percentage. Also how can you know for certain its God's voice and not your own thoughts? How do you know you're not hearing what you want to hear or are trying to feel something and hear something to confirm your beleifs. I have tried this (due to bad encouragement) and i don't think it works and if it does, then not often. I think you are in danger of opening yourself to evil influences too, even if you think you have prayed in the right way or asked in the rigfht way. If you try and do this without scripture and you think you hear god's voice and then something bad happens, you'll blame God when in actual fact, he probably never said what you thought he did.

3. How have you been mislead by what you thought was God’s voice? In what ways did this confuse you?

Possibly. It just led to me feeling bad when i realised it wasnt his voice as well as wasted time. thankfully thats all. It was temporary. Although i was annoyed for letting myself be fooled into thinking i could do something and hear God's voice.

4. Hard cessationists have been falsely accused of denying that God can work miracles today, when in reality they do not deny that God can work miracles, but that God gifts particular people to work miracles. A hard cessationist may
pray for God to miraculously heal someone of cancer just as hopefully as a continuationist. Does this clear up some misunderstanding? Explain.

I dont think this completely clears it up. My understanding was that Hard cessations aren't denying God can work miracles today, they're just saying God's doesn't use ppl to reveal himself in the form of miracles anymore. They would say he doesn't because it isn't necessary anymore, it's not the way he normally chooses to reveal himself anymore and it wasn't usually the way he did in the past either. However in the past, at certain points in time e.g. when establishing the church, they were used as confirmation of God's power or of the holy spirit's presence e.g. among the apostles and true christians. If my understandign is correct, hard cessationists would beleive God had the ability to heal someone miraculously and may pray for it but maybe not with as much vigour and hope ans continuationists.

5. A verified prophet is one who performs an incredible sign or wonder, leaving no doubt in the minds of the observer that he or she is a prophet. Have you ever witnessed this? Explain

No I haven't experienced anything like this

6. God speaks in many different ways. The argument of this lesson is that we cannot be certain that we are hearing “God’s voice” unless it is verified through rightly interpreted Scripture or a verified prophet. How important does this make our study of Scripture? Explain.

It makes it very important. Not only do we need to read scripture, we need to interpret it correctly if we are not to be mislead.

7. How do you often “put God in a box” in your own life? Explain.

Im open minded in regards to spiritual gifts and things like that probably because in many ways im a new christian. But i can put God in a box in other ways. Sometimes I expect him to be or behave a certain away due to unfounded beleifs i've carried since childhood and don't really understand the origin of. So i might expect him to be something he isn't.

8. How was your thinking most challenged by the lesson? Explain.

I wasn't really challenged, if anything its put things into place and explained things better for me.

1. In what ways have you experience what you thought might be the "voice of God," either through experience or emotion? How certain can you be that it was in fact God's voice?

This is probably where I will get into some interesting discussion. I have heard God's "voice" on a number of occasions in my life. Mostly during times of decision or deep sadness. I have mostly obeyed and been blessed, once I disobeyed and it was one of the worst decisions I ever made.

God spoke comfort to me clearly when my first girlfriend broke up with me. I do not remember the exact words, but I remember the comfort.

God spoke clearly to me on attending the university He wanted me at and the majors he wanted me to study. I will discuss a little of this in #3 below. In the process He led me to a very good career and allowed me to meet my wife of 23+ years (we being from opposite parts of the country). Looking back over the years, I am grateful for obeying His commands in this regard

The biggest failure is when I heard clearly that God wanted me to write a letter to my imprisoned brother and spell out, for the final time, the gospel message to him. I put it off and put it off and in the meantime, my brother died. I was extremely broken hearted though this until God again spoke comfort to me in that He sent someone else. Am I certain of this latter revelation? No, but I do believe it anyway. God also spoke to me to write a similar letter to my best friend growing up. On this one I obeyed and don't regret, even though I have never heard from that friend since. I don't live in guilt over that one.

In all of this the "voice of God" was to me as an individual and there were no other people involved. God has spoke to me about other people from time to time, but never in an area where I have felt led to proclaim "Thus says the Lord" over them. If God speaks to me, and it is for me, I do not hold anyone else to what God is saying.

2. Many people become more desirous to hear the "voice of God" outside of Scripture when there are difficulties in their lives. What is the danger in this? Explain.

I think people are looking for the easy way out of problems they cause, and often its easier to do what you want and claim it’s the voice, without taking the time to understand that it is. Often this will lead people to do things contrary to what scripture would require.

One example I have heard many times is the whole "God wants me to be happy" argument used to justify divorcing or extra-marital affairs. Clearly these are contrary to scripture, but people will use the "voice of God" argument to justify their actions.

3. How have you been mislead by what you thought was God's voice? In what ways did this confuse you?

In a way I was when selecting my degree program. I heard God speaking to me about studying Computer Science and then I got the paper work for the new Electrical Engineering program. That sounded wonderful and I heard God telling me to study that. So I changed majors, but was not at ease in doing so. After further prayer and into the first semester of my freshman year, God spoke again to me about how he had not told me to drop the first major. It was a combination of these two degrees that landed me my first job upon graduation.

4. Hard cessationists have been falsely accused of denying that God can work miracles today, when in reality they do not deny that God can work miracles, but that God gifts particular people to work miracles. A hard cessationist may pray for God to miraculously heal someone of cancer just as hopefully as a continuationist. Does this clear up some misunderstanding? Explain.

To be honest, the hard cessationsists that I have dealt with over the years do indeed deny that God does any miracles, and I haven't met with one that does. That being the case, I will have to take the question at face value.

I would need to ask such a person that if God gifts a particular person to work a miracle than how can they claim that miracles have ended? And if God grants to a particular person the ability to work a miracle than how can they pray for God to heal as then God would be performing a miracle through them?

So in answer to the question… No it doesn't clear up any misunderstanding, it just leads to more questions.

5. A verified prophet is one who performs an incredible sign or wonder, leaving no doubt in the minds of the observer that he or she is a prophet. Have you ever witnessed this? Explain.

No. I believe it is possible, but I haven't seen it happen.

6. God speaks in many different ways. The argument of this lesson is that we cannot be certain that we are hearing "God's voice" unless it is verified through rightly interpreted Scripture or verified prophet. How important does this make our study of Scripture? Explain.

I think me need the grounding of scripture to help us understand when what we are hearing is the voice of God and when we are hearing a spot of gravy as Scrooge might say.

7. How do you often "put God in a box" in your own life? Explain

I'm not sure I put God in a box as much as I just don't turn to Him as often as I should. I believe God can do anything He wills to do, but I don't believe that God is doing things in the way some tele-evangelists' are saying.

8. How was your thinking challenged by the lesson? Explain.

I think the better understanding of the justification of each of the various point-of-views is very enlightening to me. I seek more to understand than to find areas of absolute agreement on these types of issues. I believe a sincerely devoted and saved Christian can hold either of these positions.

Group Discussion # 9
Questions:
1. In what ways have you experienced what you thought might be the “voice of God,” either through experience or emotion? How certain can you be that it was in fact God’s voice?
A: When I was asking God to open a door for my family to settle. There were ways where we could have pried doors open, but felt it was not where God would have us be. God opened the door through one person who knew of our situation and through his connections worked out the details for us to come to Canada. There were many hurdles to navigate through, but as we prayed and others prayed with and for us, we
felt confident that God was in this as He worked miracle after miracle (so it seemed to us) to obtain immigration Visas. Space does not permit to share details. I am not certain this was not necessarily God’s voice we heard, but we had peace in our hearts that this was His way of confirming His plan for us.

2. Many people become more desirous to hear the “voice of God” outside of Scripture when there are difficulties in their lives. What is the danger in this? Explain.
A; The danger is that we want to hear the “voice of God” to speak to us when we want something desperately or dealing with difficulties, that we confuse what our own hearts may be “speaking” to be God's voice, to make us feel good because He is responding to our need. This could give us false comfort or directives to follow.

3. How have you been mislead by what you thought was God’s voice? In what ways did this confuse you?
A: Before I came to trust Christ as my Savior I thought what I was taught from the Hindu scriptures was God’s voice. The uncertainty of eternal life and the endless life cycles of reincarnations were confusing to me. Jesus offered me Eternal life because He died for my sins. In fact, Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6 (NIV)

4. Hard cessationists have been falsely accused of denying that God can work miracles today, when in reality they do not deny that God can work miracles, but that God gifts particular people to work miracles. Hard cessationists may pray for God to miraculously heal someone of cancer just as hopefully as continuations. Does this clear up some misunderstanding? Explain.
A: Yes this does clear some misunderstanding. I want to believe that God answers prayer and He may choose to bring healing whether it is through medicine or miraculously. My God is all powerful. (I don’t want to be a deist).

5. A verified prophet is one who performs an incredible sign or wonder, leaving no doubt in the minds of the observer that he or she is a prophet. Have you ever witnessed this? Explain.
A: I have been in meetings where many simultaneously speaking in tongues and it was confusion. Other times I have heard some one speak in an unknown tongue and there was interpretation, but I still was not certain that it was from the Lord.

6. God speaks in many different ways. The argument of this lesson is that we cannot be certain that we are hearing “God’s voice” unless it is verified through rightly interpreted Scripture or a verified prophet. How important does this make our study of Scripture? Explain.
A: This is very important that we study the Scriptures so we can rightly interpret God’s Word’s and that all claims to be God’s voice is verified by Scripture. Nothing can contradict God’s written Word and still claim to be God’s voice.

7. How do you often “put God in a box” in your own life? Explain.
A: I often put God in a box by limiting God’s power to change me. Sometimes I tell God what I want Him to do as if I know what is best.
At times I don’t pray believing that God hears my prayers and He delights to answers prayers in accordance to His will.

8. How was your thinking most challenged by the lesson? Explain.
A: I realize that there are theologians and scholars who studied and come to different understanding regarding if God’s still speaks today and if the revelatory gifts are still evident. I need to be open, because God is not limited to my limited understanding. If someone or some thing claims to be of God voice, then it must meet the test of God’s written Word. The criterion for God’s prophet as set forth in Deuteronomy 18:20-22 (NIV)
20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?"
22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
Also see > Deuteronomy 13:1-3 (NIV)
1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,
2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them,"
3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.