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do you agree or disagree with Pat Robertson about reforming pot laws?
Poll ended at Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:27 pm
Agree 50%  50%  [ 8 ]
Disagree 44%  44%  [ 7 ]
No Opinion 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 16
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 Post subject: Re: Pat Robertson
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:27 am 
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Strider33 wrote:
According the histories I've read, marijuana wasn't illegal in the US until 1937. I don't know if this is the real history or not, but it sounds credible.

One of the factions that got in line in favor of criminalizing pot were the sisal growers. If you make the growing of hemp illegal, it's a bonanza for sisal vendors, because both sisal and hemp are used for making rope. This is hardly a legitimate basis for making law, but many laws come into being because of support from people just trying to advance their own self interest.




This could wind up a long post, because there is so many observations there. You are correct, the first federal legislation regarding pot was enacted in 1937. The following are quotes from the transcripts of testimony before the Congress. In other words, this is what wwas said to the Congress in order to compell them to enact a tax on pot:
"The leading newspapers of the United States have recognized the seriousness of this problem and many of them have advocated Federal legislation to control the traffic in marihuana. In fact, several newspapers in the city of Washington have advocated such legislation. In a recent editorial, the Washington Times stated:

The marihuana cigarette is one of the most insidious of all forms of dope, largely because of he failure of the public to understand its fatal qualities.

The Nation is almost defenseless against it, having no Federal laws to cope with it and virtually no organized campaign for combating it. The result is tragic.

School children are the prey of peddlers who infest school neighborhoods.

High-school boys and girls buy the destructive weed without knowledge of it capacity for harm, and conscienceless dealers sell it with impunity.

This is a national problem and it must have national attention.

The fatal marihuana cigarette must be recognized as a deadly drug and American children must be protected against it.



..."The purpose of H.R. 6385 is to employ the Federal taxing power not only to raise revenue from the marihuana traffic, but also to discourage the current and widespread undesirable use of marihuana by smokers and drug addicts and thus drive the traffic into channels where the plant will be put to valuable industrial, medical, and scientific uses. In accomplishing this general purpose two objectives should dictate the form of the proposed legislation: First, the development of a scheme of taxation which would raise revenue and which would also render virtually impossible the acquisition of marihuana by person who would put it to illicit uses without unduly interfering with the use of the plant for industrial , medical, and scientific purposes; and second, the development of an adequate means of publicizing dealings in marihuana in order that the traffic may be effectively taxed and controlled."

(Testimony of Clinton Hester, Assistant General Counsel for the Department of the Treasury, 1937)


As you can see, some of the things the Congress was led to believe are not true. Also, the purpose and intents of the tax act have not been followed. Although the Congress was led to believe that this tax act would not interfere with the industrial, medical, and scientific uses of this plant, it seems today that those positive uses are the only thing outlawed.

Which brings me to another point. A number of people believe that the true intents of pot prohibition was to shut down the hemp industry, basically because that's what happened. Here's the "conspiracy theory":
Andy Mellon was the secretary of the Treasury. This same Andy Mellon was the head of Mellon Bank, the main bank for DuPont Corporation. DuPont had just come out with patents on a wood pulp paper making process, and also patents on nylon, and a number of paint making processes. None of these products would be as efficient as industrial hemp and would be much more expensive. And so Andy Mellon appointed his Nephew in law, Harry Anslinger, to head up the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, to campaign for nearly ten years across the country, to enact federal legislation to control the use of "marihuana", in order to severely regulate the hemp industry and make the new petrochemical products more competitive.

A good example of what hapened is the current Chevy Volt. It's a real neat trick to run an electric car, but practically it is nowhere near as efficient and usable as an internal combustion engine.
And so the Government, who want us to switch to electric cars, have to come up with some kind of incentives to make the electric car competitive with the gas powered cars. They can raise the price of gas, They can offer incentives to purchase the electric car, or they can outlaw gas, or the internal combustion engine, and force us to switch to the electric car.

Andy Mellon wanted us to switch to DuPont's petrochemical processing products and papermaking and paint making patents. He would make a lot of money that way and make a lot of jobs for DuPont, to keep our nation going during the depression. But he had to deal with the hemp industry, which was far more efficient than petrochemical processing. Anything we can make out of hydrocarbons, we can make out of carbohydrates. Petroleum or vegetable oil, they both work about the same in industry.

1958 Wisconsin was the last crop of industrial hemp harvested in America.

If you want to learn more about the history of hemp, the "conspiracy theory" behind marihuana prohibition, and it's potential uses, there is a book to read. It's called "the Emporer Wears No Clothes" by a man named Jack Herer, who recently passed away. It's a book that will certainly inform and challenge people's world view abou tthe pot plant.


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 Post subject: Re: Pat Robertson
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:06 pm 
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JeffL wrote:

"January 10, 2012- A 22-year-old medical marijuana patient is set to be extradited to Texas in the coming days to face pot possession charges that could land him in prison for up to 99 years. 22-year-old Mendocino resident Christopher Diaz sits in a Ukiah jail awaiting extradition to Browns County, Texas. Diaz was arrested on October 30th as he drove through Austin, Texas on his way to visit his great-grandmother who was very ill. He had less than a half-an-ounce of hash, and less than a quarter ounce of marijuana in the car when authorities pulled him over. He was arrested on possession with intent to distribute it.

After his arrest, Diaz left Texas and hightailed it to his home in California. He has now been indicted for bail jumping. He is currently being held on a $160,000 bail, but the judge in the case wants you to know that as a California official, she is required to comply with Texas authorities under the Uniform Extradition Act."




Kids from California don't realize what they're getting in to when they bring a personal ammount of pot with them as they visit the state of Texas. The laws of the community he comes from- Ukiah, Mendocino county, Ca. Allow him to possess 2 pounds of pot and cultivate up to 99 plants. In fact, you don't have to be a patient to grow and possess pot in Mendocino. A homeowner can have 25 pot plants growing in his home and the Sherriff won't do a thing. That's the values of the community he comes from. He doesn't realize how serious and active the State of Texas is in prosecuting pot offenders- especially out-of-state "adults" who "traffic" pot into the state! This kid's only hope is that there is a technical procedural error and the Judge throws it out.

I don't know about you, but I'm gonna say a prayer for this "poor" young man, that maybe the People of Texas find a measure of mercy in their hearts and let this kid keep his life. This is exactly the frustration and insanity that Mr. Robertson was talking about.




I have an update on Mr. Diaz's case. He was facing 20 years per gram of hashish, which would land him a 100 year sentence. The charges have been reduced to possession of 1-4 grams of hashish and has been sentenced to three years in a Texas prison.

This will cost taxpayers 120 to 150 thousand dollars to enforce this sentence, and will no doubt have a lasting, probably negative-trauma-stress related impact on the kid.

I feel bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Pat Robertson
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:54 am 
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About 2 years ago I asked some older ladies from a group I attend if they could give me a little history on the use of marijuana in the US before it was illegal. They informed me that doctors used to issue prescriptions of it for patients and that there was not a problem with those who used it. It wasn't until the government declaired it an "illegal" drug that patients who had been using it to alliviate pains and could no longer find relief started to have to "do Illegal things" to get relief.

I have thought that placing a naturally grown herb, along side man made "drugs" such as heroin and cocaine was a bit outlandish. We are sometimes like blind followers of man. We go to the doctors with aches and pains, he hands us a little paper that we take to a drug store and they give us the medicine and we have NO idea what goes into that man made, pharmacutical provided drug. But we take it anyway because they told us to.

These ladies also informed me that the Hemp plant was and is used for a lot of things. The weed is very tough and was used to make ropes and fabrics. The seeds were used for oils. Many health and beauty products are made from this weed. There are ways to grow the hemp plant without the THC and make it a crop. But we won't because of all the stigma attached to it for the past 70 years because our government decided that "it was a bad weed"

I look at this "weed" as a huge help to many people, in many forms. If used as a medicine, like tylenol ,the affects do help. But just like anything, one needs to be in control of self, not having something control them.


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 Post subject: Re: Pat Robertson
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Effects on Brain
Once inhaled, THC rapidly passes from the lungs to bloodstream through which it gets dispersed throughout the body. When it reaches brain, it gets attached to receptors named cannaboid on nerve endings and stimulates the activity of these cells. Areas of brain like hypothalamus, cerebellum that controls the activities like memory, coordinated body movements, pleasure, concentration, thoughts. The initial short term effects that found after inhaling Marijuana are distorted perception, loss of memory, lack of reasoning. Besides short term effects, there are long terms effects as with any prolong drug abuse. If the subject is chronically exposed to THC, then its withdrawal stimulates stress response system. It disrupts the function of dopamine present in the nerve cells which is responsible for regulation of motivation.

Effects on Lungs
Rare abusers experience burning sensation in mouth combined with nasal congestion and cough. Someone who is a regular abuser can have many respiratory problems. The effects are characterized by increased cough, frequent acute chest pain, lung infections. Inhaling Marijuana increases the risk of carcinogenic effects. TCH produces 60% more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than those of tobacco. It also activates and initiates enzyme changes which lead to production of malignant cells that are highly responsible for cancer. In simple words, it is much more harmful with Marijuana than with tobacco.

Effects on Heart
As intake of Marijuana decreases the oxygen carrying capacity of blood, there is an adverse effect on heart rate and blood pressure. Studies have shown that the abusers carry much greater risk of heart attack.

Other Effects
In human body, an immune system is present to fight against antibodies, diseases. Marijuana is known to impair this system thus increases the risk to other infections and diseases. In social behavior, problems like anxiety, depression are attached with chronic smoking of this drug. Generally, the abuser loses his ability to grasp, learn the things. The chronic users have serious shifting in their concentration, ability to organize.

If marijuana is inhaled regularly during pregnancy, then babies born have altered neurological responses. Research has revealed that such children exhibit lapses in memory, problem solving skill characterized with less attention. There are also adverse effects on reproductive systems of male and female. In males it carries risk of lessening the sperm count and even degenerate them. Female counter parts can experience in suppression of ovulation process, disruption of menstruation cycles and even damage to egg. It can cause abnormalities like fatal alcohol symptoms.

Long term abuser can lead to addiction. People trying to quit this habit usually experience sleeplessness, irritability, increased aggression and feelings. The adverse effects are so many and easily outnumber its few medicinal uses!


Last edited by Gideon on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Removed quote of the entire immediately preceding post as redundant.


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 Post subject: Re: Pat Robertson
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:29 pm 
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These are good observations that would help one make a rational decision. But the stage of reason is quite relative. Check out what I can google in 5 minutes:

Effects on the brain:
1."Marijuana’s Impact On Brain Function “Minimal,” New Study Says"
2."Research published in this week's Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences demonstrates that naturally occurring compounds in marijuana may protect brain cells during a stroke."
3."Marijuana may protect brain from binge drinking"

Effects on the lungs
1. JAMA: "Long-Term Exposure To Cannabis Smoke Not Associated With Adverse Effects On Pulmonary Function" Thursday, 12 January 2012
2. "Inhaling cannabis has contrasting effects on lung function compared to smoking tobacco, according to the results of a population-based study published online in the European Respiratory Journal."

Effects on the heart
1. "Marijuana may up heart attack, stroke risk-if you smoke 2-9 Oz. a week"
2. "Emerging research indicates that the endogenous cannabinoid system plays a role in regulating blood pressure, though its mechanism of action is not well understood.[1] Animal studies demonstrate that anandamide and other endocannabinoids profoundly suppress cardiac contractility in hypertension and can normalize blood pressure,[2-3] leading some experts to speculate that the manipulation of the endocannabinoid system "may offer novel therapeutic approaches in a variety of cardiovascular disorders."


Ever hear of our body's "endocannabinoid system"?



In just a few minutes, I was able to find observations that would lead one to believe the exact opposite about pot use. That is why it is so critical for me to continually ask myself, "what does the Bible say about it?" I want to see it the same way God sees it.

And I would point out also that toxicologists start out with the premise that everything is toxic, there are no harmless substances. This is a key difference in the world view of the secular scientist, and the Christian theologian.


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 Post subject: Re: Pat Robertson
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:26 am 
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Here's the way Gods See's this and I didn't Google this either....

Each time we offer our bodies as “living sacrifices” to God, our stubborn nature will
rebel. But with Christ in control we can break its grip. “Do not conform…to the pattern
of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind” . We have the
option; be conformed or transformed! Deciding “I will not conform to the world” leads
to a transformed lifestyle. Your old nature naturally conforms, enslaving you to worldly
influences. Phillips’s translation says: “Don’t let the world around you squeeze you into
its own mould.” Conforming to the world’s values—like sensuality, pride, control, etc.—
will rob you of the liberating power of Christ living in you, resulting in a recurring cycle of
guilt, failure and discouragement. Choosing not to conform to this world is what opens the
door to your transformation. Unlike conformity, which is externally initiated, your walk
with God will become an outer expression of an inner change. The tadpole’s life is transformed
into the frog’s life, and the caterpillar’s into the butterfly’s. You become transformed
from the inside out. How does it happen? “Greater is he that is in you, than he that is in
the world” . Add to your decision not to conform, your commitment to “the renewing
of your mind,” which in Greek text means you think God’s thoughts instead of your
old thoughts, then watch as a Holy Spirit-empowered transformation begins to take place
in your daily life.


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 Post subject: Re: Pat Robertson
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:53 am 
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I sense a presupposition that using pot is a "worldly" or "fleshly"desire. That using pot is the old, dead thing that passes away and is no longer a part of our new life in Christ.
I think people carry with them a similar presupposition about alcohol use, that using alcohol is the old, dead thing that passes away.

Colossians 2:16-23 lead me to believe that abstinence is the old, dead thing that passes away, and is no longer a part of our new life in Christ.

What I draw from the Word of God, is that the most important thing is that we do not harm our conscience by betraying our convictions. If you feel like it is unpleasing to God for you to use alcohol, pot, or anything, for God's sake don't use it!

As John Chrysostom said :
"Because he eats not of faith. Not because it is unclean, but because it is not of faith. For he did not believe that it is clean, but though unclean he touched it. But by this he shows them also what great harm they do by compelling men, and not persuading them, to touch things which had hitherto appeared unclean to them, that for this at all events they might leave rebuking. For whatsoever is not of faith is sin. For when a person does not feel sure, nor believe that a thing is clean, how can he do else than sin? (Homily 26 on Romans 14)

I wonder how many people use alcohol or pot in a state of mind like this; people who betray their convictions when they use alcohol or pot, or anything for that matter. "A harmed conscience" is the meaning of the word "stumble". We need to be following the Lord from the bottom of our hearts.

To me, that's what is most important, that we stay true to our convictions, that we do not harm our conscience by our acts, that we maintain a clear conscience before God and men.


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