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Was the Florida Shooting Justified "Under Stand Your Ground"?
Yes 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
No 38%  38%  [ 5 ]
Undecided 54%  54%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 13
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:54 pm 
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Obadiah wrote:
Iluvatar:

Context is important. I can't speak from experience what it's like to be black in America and view history through that lens. Another great column by Eugene Robinson discusses the reality of being a young black man in America and how just walking down the street makes you a 'suspicious' character in the eyes of many. Another column I read recently - can't recall the author - described "The Conversation" every black father has to have with his son. Even if you've done nothing wrong, you'll need to know the proper procedure for how to act when a cop pulls you over, that sort of thing. I haven't much had to deal with that.

I'm not sure what it will take to change these realities. A great deal of progress has been made, but a great deal remains to be done.



Well said.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:54 pm 
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There's fascinating information available about the Special Prosecutor who's been assigned to handle this case:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH_PROSECUTOR?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-03-31-12-35-55

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:02 pm 
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The Special Prosecutor is going to file charges against George (Jorge?) Zimmerman in the shooting of Treyvon Martin:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-04-11-15-06-49

I know from previous news coverage that the most severe charge she can file is Manslaughter, because she would have needed the Grand Jury (that she dismissed) for First Degree Murder.

I'm thinking it will be Manslaughter, a felony. I base my speculations on the fact that she must have a lot of conclusive evidence for whatever she is charging him with. If she is charging him with anything less than Manslaughter, she might have wanted the Grand Jury after all, because that would be more inconclusive IMO. But we'll see. :?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:12 pm 
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Also, in addition to the fact that Zimmerman's arrest is imminent, he will have to find a new defense attorney. Today is not a good day for Mr. Zimmerman.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:34 pm 
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Here's a news conference with his former attorneys explaining why they have withdrawn:

http://www.reuters.com/video/2012/04/10/attorneys-for-martin-shooter-zimmerman-w?videoId=233102955&videoChannel=2602

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:59 am 
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I saw Trayvon's parents on Today this a.m and they were surprisingly non-inflammatory in their comments. His mother even used the word "accident" in talking about the shooting.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:17 am 
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If she used the word "accident", I wonder if she could possibly be a defense witness since he will be on trial for second degree murder. I can see how the defense might pounce on that.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:40 am 
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tsnody2001 wrote:
If she used the word "accident", I wonder if she could possibly be a defense witness since he will be on trial for second degree murder. I can see how the defense might pounce on that.


She isn't a "witness" to anything. It might be relevant in a sentencing hearing, perhaps.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:39 am 
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Thank you, Bill Cosby:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH_BILL_COSBY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-04-15-12-04-46

He says it doesn't matter whether George Zimmerman was a racist or not. Why did he even have a gun in the first place? I absolutely agree.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:56 am 
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There's collateral damage to the American Legislative Exchange Council because of the boycotts in protest of the Stand Your Ground law it created. They've lost corporate sponsors and have announced a retrenchment in their activities (trying to preserve their remaining sponsors, no doubt). There's a separate thread for ALEC if anyone's interested. :?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:44 pm 
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I like Bill Cosby, but he evidently doesn't believe the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms should be in our Constitution. When you disarm law abiding citizens, then the only people with guns will be the government, criminals, and foreign enemies. That would make criminals, foreign enemies, and an autocratic government very happy, but it would not be good for the people. Our forebears recognized that, which is why they gave us the Second Amendment to preserve the people's right to own and carry weapons. Liberals, of course, don't like the Second Amendment and would like to disarm the citizenry (like Hitler did).

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Assured wrote:
There's a separate thread for ALEC if anyone's interested
surprisingly, there are oodles of threads on craaazy things like prayer requests, doctrine, theology, etc too :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Gideon wrote:
I like Bill Cosby, but he evidently doesn't believe the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms should be in our Constitution. When you disarm law abiding citizens, then the only people with guns will be the government, criminals, and foreign enemies. That would make criminals, foreign enemies, and an autocratic government very happy, but it would not be good for the people. Our forebears recognized that, which is why they gave us the Second Amendment to preserve the people's right to own and carry weapons. Liberals, of course, don't like the Second Amendment and would like to disarm the citizenry (like Hitler did).


I'm glad someone else is saying this, though (I would hate to be the only one).

We do need a vigorous discussion of HOW we will control gun possession, because IF we will control it should never have been made an open question. We are turning into the Wild, Wild West IMO and it is getting out of control. If anything, Mr. Cosby's remarks were remarkably restrained compared with my view of this situation. Mr. Zimmerman in particular should probably have been disqualified from owing a gun IMO because I do not think he is "all there." (You aren't supposed to be allowed to own a gun if you aren't "all there."

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:15 pm 
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Gideon, don't forget Stalin did the same thing, and in fact decided not to attempt invading the U.S. because he feared catastrophic losses from armed citizens.
Assured wrote:
We are turning into the Wild, Wild West IMO and it is getting out of control. If anything, Mr. Cosby's remarks were remarkably restrained compared with my view of this situation. Mr. Zimmerman in particular should probably have been disqualified from owing a gun IMO because I do not think he is "all there." (You aren't supposed to be allowed to own a gun if you aren't "all there."
Then I'm glad you aren't in control of the government!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:48 pm 
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Gideon wrote:
I like Bill Cosby, but he evidently doesn't believe the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms should be in our Constitution. When you disarm law abiding citizens, then the only people with guns will be the government, criminals, and foreign enemies. That would make criminals, foreign enemies, and an autocratic government very happy, but it would not be good for the people. Our forebears recognized that, which is why they gave us the Second Amendment to preserve the people's right to own and carry weapons. Liberals, of course, don't like the Second Amendment and would like to disarm the citizenry (like Hitler did).



I think you are overstating what Mr Cosby said:

"Cosby says the bigger question is what Zimmerman was doing with a gun, and who taught him how to behave with it."

Frankly, it's too early to be implying whether or not Zimmerman was mentally fit to carry a weapon and whether he was using the weapon for anything other than self-defense. I expect that will get sorted out in the courts. However, Cosby did not say all law abiding citizens should be disarmed. Also, I would be interested to see what percentage of the American people are opposed to the Second Amendment. My hunch is the vast majority support it...


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