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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:03 am 
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I have a question that I have researched extensively for several months but cannot seem to come to a clear answer. I have talked to several leaders in several local affiliated Churches but there seems to be a mixed feeling on the subject.

My question is this: Is it Biblically Correct for a divorced man to be able to serve as a deacon over a church?

1 Timothy 3 states that a deacon should be the husband of one wife. Several different translations to this state that he is to be faithful to the wife he has. I've have pretty much grown wary trying to come up with a simple answer and sometimes frustrated with the individuals I speak with about it.

Any advice?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:19 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:53 am 
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The requirement is that he has one wife. He cannot be a polygamist, nor should he be remarried. I don't think being divorced in and of itself is a disqualification.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:06 am 
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psychobobicus wrote:
The requirement is that he has one wife. He cannot be a polygamist, nor should he be remarried. I don't think being divorced in and of itself is a disqualification.


Ok, being remarried.......Wouldn't he have to be divorced first?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:32 am 
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I would agree with the statement of Psycho. The matter of being divorced may actually be out of the hands of the divorcee (it can be forced upon them), but the matter of getting married again after a divorce is always a matter of choice (no deacon or elder is ever being forced to marry...even if their hormones seem to suggest otherwise :D ).

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:16 pm 
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Antipater wrote:
I would agree with the statement of Psycho. The matter of being divorced may actually be out of the hands of the divorcee (it can be forced upon them), but the matter of getting married again after a divorce is always a matter of choice (no deacon or elder is ever being forced to marry...even if their hormones seem to suggest otherwise :D ).


So if I understand this, divorce is ok. It is the act of taking a second wife that makes it wrong?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:40 pm 
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I would certainly not want to be dogmatic on this issue, but it seems to me that the NT teaches that a justifiable divorce (e.g., for an injured spouse in the case of adultery, or an abandoned spouse) gives freedom for the injured spouse to remarry without sinning.

Matthew 19:9
Quote:
"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."


I Corinthians 7
Quote:
10But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11(but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. 12But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. 14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. 15Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called [b]us to peace.


Now, if this is so, how could it be that an individual who is justified in the divorce is precluded from serving as deacon? Therefore, I think a possible interpretation would be that if an individual has remarried after a justified divorce, he is, in fact, the husband of one wife, since the divorce freed him to remarry. However, an individual who is remarried after an unjustified divorce is still bound to the first wife and thus inelligible to remarry and thereby is made inelligible to serve as deacon.

Regards.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Jimd,

You hit the nail right on the head for why I have so much confussion with this issue.

That is exactly where I am with my church and feel it driving a wedge in my spiritual growth. I am divorced, from a lady who got pregnant from another man while we where married. Yet my church leaders refuse to allow me to serve as a deacon although I have been voted in by the church members.

Therefore I am kind of lost with this and not sure how to proceed. Should I fight for my church members or just pass it off and let it go?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:10 pm 
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If you're divorced but have not remarried or entered into another relationship with a different person then the issue is not covered by the advice that saint Paul gave to Timothy and Titus. If you have remarried then it is covered by saint Paul's advice and you should not seek a deaconal role.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:19 pm 
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Than please explain where it states this

This is 1 Timothy 3 out of the Todays NIV.
8 In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.

11 In the same way, the women [b] are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.

12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.

Lets not forget this
Mathew 19:8-9
8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

So if I am divorced for unfaithfulness, which Jesus says is the only ok divorce. And I remarry, What makes it wrong to be a deacon??

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Sorry, I do not mean to intrude in your personal life. My comments arise out of my understanding of scripture and I know that others see things differently, so please do not take what I say as an attempt by me to dictate how you should behave in your own denomination.

My reasoning is based on these passages:
    Some Pharisees approached him, and to put him to the test they said, 'Is it against the Law for a man to divorce his wife on any pretext whatever?' He answered, 'Have you not read that the Creator from the beginning made them male and female and that he said: This is why a man leaves his father and mother and becomes attached to his wife, and the two become one flesh? They are no longer two, therefore, but one flesh. So then, what God has united, human beings must not divide.' They said to him, 'Then why did Moses command that a writ of dismissal should be given in cases of divorce?' He said to them, 'It was because you were so hard-hearted, that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but it was not like this from the beginning. Now I say this to you: anyone who divorces his wife -- I am not speaking of an illicit marriage -- and marries another, is guilty of adultery.' The disciples said to him, 'If that is how things are between husband and wife, it is advisable not to marry.' But he replied, 'It is not everyone who can accept what I have said, but only those to whom it is granted. There are eunuchs born so from their mother's womb, there are eunuchs made so by human agency and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.'
    (Matthew 19:3-12 NJB)

    Some Pharisees approached him and asked, 'Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?' They were putting him to the test. He answered them, 'What did Moses command you?' They replied, 'Moses allowed us to draw up a writ of dismissal in cases of divorce.' Then Jesus said to them, 'It was because you were so hard hearted that he wrote this commandment for you. But from the beginning of creation he made them male and female. This is why a man leaves his father and mother, and the two become one flesh. They are no longer two, therefore, but one flesh. So then, what God has united, human beings must not divide.' Back in the house the disciples questioned him again about this, and he said to them, 'Whoever divorces his wife and marries another is guilty of adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another she is guilty of adultery too.'
    (Mark 10:2-12 NJB)
The translation that I am using differs from the one that you quoted. The one I used says that the case that the Lord is dealing with is a licit marriage; He says "I am not speaking of an illicit marriage". In my faith tradition an illicit marriage is one that was never fully sacramental so it was not "real"; such marriages may be annuled and after annulment remarriage is possible, but if the marriage is licit then after divorce remarriage is not possible as long as both partners of the marriage live.

It seems that nowadays marriage and divorce have shifted in meaning as society has shifted its definition of marriage and the laws that govern it. I hope you find a solution to your dilemma and I hope that the passage I quoted above will be helpful in your walk with God.

Cheers

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:41 pm 
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DailyBread wrote:
Sorry, I do not mean to intrude in your personal life. My comments arise out of my understanding of scripture and I know that others see things differently, so please do not take what I say as an attempt by me to dictate how you should behave in your own denomination.

My reasoning is based on these passages:
    Some Pharisees approached him, and to put him to the test they said, 'Is it against the Law for a man to divorce his wife on any pretext whatever?' He answered, 'Have you not read that the Creator from the beginning made them male and female and that he said: This is why a man leaves his father and mother and becomes attached to his wife, and the two become one flesh? They are no longer two, therefore, but one flesh. So then, what God has united, human beings must not divide.' They said to him, 'Then why did Moses command that a writ of dismissal should be given in cases of divorce?' He said to them, 'It was because you were so hard-hearted, that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but it was not like this from the beginning. Now I say this to you: anyone who divorces his wife -- I am not speaking of an illicit marriage -- and marries another, is guilty of adultery.' The disciples said to him, 'If that is how things are between husband and wife, it is advisable not to marry.' But he replied, 'It is not everyone who can accept what I have said, but only those to whom it is granted. There are eunuchs born so from their mother's womb, there are eunuchs made so by human agency and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.'
    (Matthew 19:3-12 NJB)

    Some Pharisees approached him and asked, 'Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?' They were putting him to the test. He answered them, 'What did Moses command you?' They replied, 'Moses allowed us to draw up a writ of dismissal in cases of divorce.' Then Jesus said to them, 'It was because you were so hard hearted that he wrote this commandment for you. But from the beginning of creation he made them male and female. This is why a man leaves his father and mother, and the two become one flesh. They are no longer two, therefore, but one flesh. So then, what God has united, human beings must not divide.' Back in the house the disciples questioned him again about this, and he said to them, 'Whoever divorces his wife and marries another is guilty of adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another she is guilty of adultery too.'
    (Mark 10:2-12 NJB)
The translation that I am using differs from the one that you quoted. The one I used says that the case that the Lord is dealing with is a licit marriage; He says "I am not speaking of an illicit marriage". In my faith tradition an illicit marriage is one that was never fully sacramental so it was not "real"; such marriages may be annuled and after annulment remarriage is possible, but if the marriage is licit then after divorce remarriage is not possible as long as both partners of the marriage live.

It seems that nowadays marriage and divorce have shifted in meaning as society has shifted its definition of marriage and the laws that govern it. I hope you find a solution to your dilemma and I hope that the passage I quoted above will be helpful in your walk with God.

Cheers


No intrusion detected DailyBread.
But honestly, you confused me more.

The definition of Illicit is as follows:
1. not legally permitted or authorized; unlicensed; unlawful.
2. disapproved of or not permitted for moral or ethical reasons.

So, an unfaithful marriage would be considered an illicit marriage. Correct?

Now I totally agree that if there are no grounds for the divorce based on the teachings of Jesus, that a man should not be appointed a deacon. But if his grounds are based on the teachings, What makes him wrong?? What makes him any less adequate to fill the role than anybody else??

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:59 pm 
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Divorce is not in itself the problem or the issue; it is remarriage after divorce that would be a problem.

The passages I quoted indicate that remarriage after divorce is a sin for whichever party remarries - man or woman - because it is entering into an adulterous relationship. The new relationship is adulterous because divorce does not end the marriage in God's eyes. That is the message in saint Mark's gospel. Saint Matthew's gospel adds a clause about something that differing translators treat differently; the TNIV that you quoted treats it as "sexual immorality" the NJB that I used treats it as "illicit marriage" by which the NJB means that the marriage was never valid and so there is no "divorce" when there is no licit marriage. Other translations treat the "something" as "fornication" or "adultery"; because of the uncertainty of the translations Christians from various backgrounds have formed differing opinions about remarriage. I do not know what your denomination's position is on this issue so I cannot comment on why your congregation's leadership is dealing with you as they are.

If you have not remarried then as far as I am able to tell your divorce would not be in itself a reason to refuse to let you serve as a deacon.

Cheers

PS: in my Church deacons are not elected; they are ordained after going through formal studies for a time and after being examined by the local bishop and/or his delegates.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:05 pm 
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I can see where you could be confusing being from another denom.
I have remarried just to share but I do appreciate your input.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:13 pm 
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jlovekamp, you're dealing with several issues.

FIrst, in the situation you describe, is your divorce justified? IMHO, yes, if your spouse was unfaithful. In your situation, you do not commit adultery by remarrying, according to Jesus' words in Matthew 19:9. Your remarriage is legitimate because you are no longer under the obligation of your marriage vows.

Secondly, if you are allowed to remarry, may you serve as a deacon. Again, IMHO, yes. You are the husband of one wife and are not disbarred. But, you and I do not set the standards for your church. A board of deacons/elders/overseers/whatchamacllits have been called by God to direct your church. So, your opinion and my opinion don't really matter.

Thirdly, you ask above, "Should I fight for my church members or just pass it off and let it go?" If by fight, you mean, should you argue your case with scripture to the powers that be, the answer is maybe. If you are in a local church governed by an autonomous board of whatchamacallits, you may have some success in convincing the powers that be of your position. If you are in a denomination and your church is following the denominational position, then it is likely to be fruitless. But, if you are able to argue the case and you are still not successful, should you "fight", I would say no. You have plenty of opportunities for service without being a deacon. There is likely more damage to be done to your local church body by fighting than by submitting in humility.

Hope that helps.

Regards.

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