Bible Forum

The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

It is currently Fri May 24, 2013 10:01 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Forum rules


To All Forum Members:

Welcome to the Christianity and Science section of our Forums. If you choose to participate in this area of the site there are a few things that we would like you to be aware of. . .

Generally speaking, before you begin a new thread on any subject, please review the threads that are currently available. If you do not see your requested topic please feel free to begin a new thread. If you see a topic that you would like to discuss and the thread has been locked, please contact a moderator of this forum to request that the thread be reopened.

The following is a list of things that will not be tolerated and will cause your post to be deleted immediately.
    1) Accusations to or about another member(s) of being "ignorant", "unlearned", "uneducated", or anything similar to that
    2) Accusations to or about another member(s) of being "unchristian", or "not a christian" etc, because they do not share a posted opinion

Concerning the age of the earth. . .

Be aware that when participating in discussions concerning the age of the earth everyone's opinion is just that, their opinion. The scriptures tell us that God is the Creator. The "how" and the "process" and the "how long" is speculation by EVERYONE. Those who hold to a literal 6 day creation and those who do not are both brothers and sisters in Christ and need to be treated as such.

Although this forum will be watched for content (do the topics/discussions belong here?) they will be more moderated for conduct. Please refrain from becoming dogmatic in any posts, please remember that our first rule in our Code of Conduct states that "Kindness and respect is required of ALL who choose to use these forums"



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 2762
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Non-denominational
Name of your church: OBC
the shroud (if true); the Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, & the grail (if any are found) -- as long as these don't become items of worship, it's all good


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 6:02 pm
Posts: 1546
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Non-denominational
For those interested in other cool, Catholic stuff, the miracle of Fatima is right up there with the shroud....
This may not be the most up to date summary, but it covers the territory nicely:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... -of-fatima

S

_________________
Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 6:02 pm
Posts: 1546
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Non-denominational
Here's the WIKI entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Fatima

Growing up, this was much bigger than the shroud. It was "official."
Unbeknownst to me, the last revelation was made public this century
and was a bit anti-climatic... Whatever your opinion may be, you must admit it is interesting!
S

_________________
Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:35 pm 
The face cloth is known as the Sudarium of Oviedo. The bloodstains on it were shown to match the stains on the Shroud of Turin quite closely (I believe there were dozens of points of correspondence).

The Sudarium's history is well known; it has been in the same church in Spain since the seventh century. I am not sure if the Shroud is genuine, but it is my understanding that scientists at Oxford University will be repeating the carbon dating tests this spring in order to get a more reliable date.

Regardless of what that test reveals, the Shroud is a fascinating artifact.


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:22 am
Posts: 197
For those interested in recent 'Shroud of Turin' information.
The Discovery Channel is airing "Unwrapping the Shroud: New Evidence" this Sunday (April 5) at 6:00 PM.
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-schedules/s ... .25908.0.0

In Christ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 465
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Catholic
Name of your church: N/A
DBowling,

Thanks for the heads up on the Discovery Channel's documentary about new evidence for The Shroud of Turin. I saw the show and I found it informative. It will be interesting to see what happens with this "new evidence." I thought it was ironic that one of the scientists who was part of the first professionals to weigh on the issue (who was very skeptical) became the outspoken one to re-open the case of the Turin.

On a side note some other interesting "facts" about The Shroud of Turin...


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 040521.ece

_________________
“Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play.”

Immanuel Kant


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 2193
Location: Atlanta
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Non-denominational
Name of your church: http://northpoint.org
I enjoyed the program too.

_________________
Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 465
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Catholic
Name of your church: N/A
There was a new documentary on The Shroud Of Turin titled The Real Face of Jesus? on the History Channel. The show was pretty interesting to say the least.

_________________
“Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play.”

Immanuel Kant


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 465
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Catholic
Name of your church: N/A
More information can be found here.

_________________
“Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play.”

Immanuel Kant


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:33 pm
Posts: 194
Location: Somewhere in my mind
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Non-denominational
Name of your church: Where ever The Word is preached honestly and faithfully
I see this is an old thread but here is a link to the official research website on the shroud.

http://shroud.com/

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Rogers

Rogers' continual study of the Shroud resulted from a 2000 study by Joseph Marino and Sue Benford, based on x-ray analysis of the sample sites, shows a probable seam from a repair attempt running diagonally through the area from which the sample was taken. These researchers conclude that the samples tested by the three labs were more or less contaminated by this repair attempt. They further note that the results of the three labs show an angular skewing corresponding to the diagonal seam: the first sample in Arizona dated to 1238, the second to 1430, with the Oxford and Swiss results falling in between. They add that the variance of the C-14 results of the three labs falls outside the bounds of the Pearson's chi-square test, so that some additional explanation should be sought for the discrepancy.[3] The claims by Marino and Benford on the lack of statistical consistency of the results of the 1988 radiocarbon test were in contrast with the conclusions of J.A. Christen, who, in 1994, claimed to have applied a "robust approach" (Bayesian) to the radiocarbon data and concluded that the given age for the Shroud was correct, from a statistical point of view.[4]

When Rogers saw the paper by Marino and Benford, his reaction was that they were not scientists,[5] their theory was ridiculous, and that he still had fiber samples he had taken from the Shroud that could disprove their theory. Upon examining the fibers under a microscope, however, he concluded that, as they had hypothesized, a cotton patch had been woven into the linen fibers and then dyed to match the color of the linen. This was possible because linen is strongly resistant to dyes but cotton is not. Rogers claimed that the repair had gone undetected because it was expertly done, there was no record of it, none of the STURP team were textile experts, and the area had not previously been a major focus of any major Shroud researchers' attention because it was outside the image area.

Rogers claimed that under the microscope he could see the undyed linen fibers, the cotton fibers and the dye on the cotton fibers. Because he knew he had terminal cancer he contacted his friend and fellow STURP researcher Barrie Schwortz to record interviews, etc.[6] He also sent some of the fibers to a research lab for independent examination. When they were preparing samples, in one case they accidentally pulled apart the cotton and linen sections of one fiber. Schwortz reexamined false-color x-ray fluorescent photographs of the Shroud taken by STURP and pointed out that the sample for radiocarbon dating was taken from the only section that showed up green, indicating it had different chemical properties from the rest of the Shroud, but no one had previously paid attention to the color difference because the green portion is from a section that does not contain part of the image. In December 2008 the Discovery Channel in the United States presented a documentary titled Unwrapping the Shroud: New Evidence containing a detailed explanation of the repair and footage of Schwortz and of Rogers discussing their new findings.[7] Few month before his death Rogers submitted an article describing his findings to a peer-reviewed journal and it was published less than two months before Raymond Rogers died.[8] The essential conclusion of the article is that the radiocarbon datings were accurate, but because the samples were from cloth that was not part of the original Shroud, they are irrelevant regarding the age of the image area.

_________________
I am a stranger in a wicked and adulterous land. I look forward to returning home one day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 2193
Location: Atlanta
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Non-denominational
Name of your church: http://northpoint.org
That explanation is consistent with what I remember from the Discovery Channel program I watched, except that I also recall the differences in the results of the three c-14 tests could be explained by the amount of new and old material that each contained.

_________________
Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:31 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:34 pm
Posts: 5499
Location: Northern California
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Pentecostal
Name of your church: The Rivers Foursquare Church
Hi, Vance!

_________________
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!

Forum Code of Conduct
The Bible NETWork Doctrinal Statement
The NET Bible Study Environment
Pastors Pro-Life Resource Center
Biblical Eldership


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 2193
Location: Atlanta
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Non-denominational
Name of your church: http://northpoint.org
Gideon wrote:
Hi, Vance!
Hi Gideon, I still get messages when old threads I posted in are resurrected.
Have a great day!

_________________
Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Shroud Of Turin
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:25 am
Posts: 37
Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Non-denominational
Name of your church: The River Church, Liberty Township, Ohio
Just like with any relics, I think they are neat, they are old, they are interesting to discuss and admire. Seems unlikely that we will ever be able to "prove" these relics to be genuine, so it is a matter of faith, but shouldn't be the basis of one's faith. I'd love to see this, and other relics, just for the experience. Don't know if I truly believe the shroud is authentic, nor the "true cross", or the Holy Coat, or Bridle of Constantine, etc. Just really old objects that possibly have biblical history!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group