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I belong to a non-demonitational church. Our elders are the governing body, and final authority. Our minister does not consider himself to be an elder, but rather under the guidance of the elders.

One of our elders (the chariman of the board) has a gay daughter. While I symapthize with his situation; I have never heard him speak out against homosexuality. He has never asked the church to pray for her deliverance. Rather, he is reluctant to allow (reputable and bible based) teaching on the sanctity of marriage because it would be viewed as harsh and unloving. He and his wife asked the church to pray for & celebrate the adoption of children from oversees. They neglected to make public that these babies were being adopted into a homosexual relationship. One day at church, his daughter's partner called the church and introduced herself as his daughter-in-law. When he speaks, it is about love; and he compels the church to love each other more.

Here is my dilemma. I believe his compassion for his daughter has convoluted his view of scripture. Although he is not the sinner, by condoning this relationship and concealing the nature of it from the church; he is complicit. I believe he should be confronted and asked to step down. I believe he is disobedient and in so is preventing God from blessing our congregation.

Problem #1- there are 4 other elders that voted him into this office
Problem #2- preaching that only Jesus was blameless and therefore elders cannot be held to that standard as prescribed in Titus
Problem #3- teaching that we are not repsonsiblie for the lives of our adult children, although I recently discovered a passage in Deut of parents accusing thier child of being a "drunkard" (which to me indicates adulthood to an extent) before the church elders and then he was stoned.

I guess my direct question is this: am I right scripturally to confront this man?

I think you should talk to him, based on the responses I received in a similar thread (see "Lunch with my Pastor").

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For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. --Matthew 6:21

Have you spoken to the other elders about your concerns? That would be the first logical step. It is their right to deal with the elder.

Broadly speaking, we are not responsible for the sins of our adult children .... once they become adults and move out of the home then they are no longer under our control.

But this does not mean the elder should condone his daughter's lifestyle. I agree all people must be treated with love and grace must be offered to all ... including homosexuals. However, this definitely does not mean condoning the sin, or calling it by any other name than sin .... read John 8 ... the story of the woman taken in adultery. Jesus shows her love and grace, but He also says to her .... "Go, and leave your life of sin." (Jn.8:11 NIV).

Notice He does not say "it doesn't matter as long as you love each other".

The love of God cannot be preached without preaching the wrath of a Holy God against sin. If sin doesn't matter, as long as we love each other, then why do we need a Savior?

According to Matthew 18, which is the "model" my church uses for discipline/conflict resolution; I should go to him privately first. I am aware that elders should not be confronted on the testimony of one, but rather 2. My husband and I are in agreement on this issue, as are a number of others. My husband was chosen as the "confronter" because of his non-threatening demeanor.

I have spoken with our minister, who agrees he is not responsible for his adult children. However, our issue is not with the daughter, but with the elder; with his apparent approval of the relationship.

I think that it is a very dangerous thing to start "investigating" the private lives of adult children of those in leadership roles. The apparent fascination with other peoples lives at the expense of overlooking ones own shortcomings has a long history in the Church. Confrontation of this elder about his adult child's life should only be done when and if that child directly interferes with the life of the congregation.

I know and understand this, but my problem is not with his daughter. It is that his wife flew oversees to help adopt children into the relationship; and asked the church's blessing and prayer for it without disclosing who adopted the children. My probelm is that he now attempts to limit teaching on the issue of homosexuality. My problem is that it appears he accepts his daughter's partner as his daughter-in-law; and that is in direct contradiction to scripture.

I am curious to hear of similar circumstances, and how other congregations have handled these things.

This may help........

http://www.peacemakers.net/

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"There is none so blind, who will not see"

I think that this is a good lead Dave...well worth looking at.

I guess my direct question is this: am I right scripturally to confront this man?

Actually no.
1 Timothy 2:12... I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

This is exercising authority over a man inside the church.


Problem #1- there are 4 other elders that voted him into this office

I assume the problem you see is there maybe a buddy system, or a clique? Remembers elders should be close and accountable to each other. That requires a high level of trust and loyalty.

Problem #2- preaching that only Jesus was blameless and therefore elders cannot be held to that standard as prescribed in Titus
Titus 1:5-9
Blameless is not being perfect. Blameless refers to living a good life, not a sinless life. Blameless would also indicate repentance, so God does not hold an elder in unrepentive sin.

Problem #3- teaching that we are not repsonsiblie for the lives of our adult children, although I recently discovered a passage in Deut of parents accusing thier child of being a "drunkard" (which to me indicates adulthood to an extent) before the church elders and then he was stoned.

Are you suggesting accountability for the actions of adult children? Think of the ramifications beyond your reasoning.

solochichu;

I have been exposed to divisive issues, and this is clearly an issue for the board. Allow the time needed to bring this issue to resolution. The local body should provide all available resourses to this church leader to resolve this. Avoid gossip, and if you must , gossip to God.[/quote]

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"There is none so blind, who will not see"

Thanks for the input. My husband is the one that will be handling the actual confrontation, and we have both spent time fasting and praying about it.



I am not of the belief that we are responsible for the actions of our adult children, though I am still trying to reconcile Moses' command in Deut. I myself have dealt with a rebellious child, but I asked for the prayers of the people and made no attempt to hide what was going on. It is the deception that gets under our skin.



Oh, if I could only go into this..yes it is.

I will check out the peacemakers; I will actually be at the peacemaker marriage in April.

My husband has been led to pray for this elder for 7 days prior to confrontation (Friday?).

Dear Friend,
I am not sure that I agree with you on this one. I don't think the elder should be held accountable for the actions of an adult child that lives outside the home. You cannot always make your children act the way you want or expect. Elders are not perfect any more than anyone else. If your going to say he should step down than what about divorced adult children of an elder? Is that a greater or lesser sin? What about an elder who might have an alcoholic adult child? In drawing lines and saying I would tolerate this but not that, but you don't realize that sin is sin and God doesn't draw lines like that.
We are called to show mercy on others and to love them despite their faults. If you have an issue with him doesn't Matthew 18 lead us to understsand we are to go to that person privately first and talk to him/her?

Jeff

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Jeff

The matter is a false one

I think a comprehensive study of who were presbyters in the New Testament will reveal they were Apostles and their servants including local people for the maintenance of teaching exactly the apostolic Doctrine, all were directly apostolic appointments.

This structure can not be continued for apostles are no longer here to appoint. That structure is replaced by scripture


The principle that now applies is call no one Father, teacher etc for you are brethren

However a minister is someone totaly devoted to the word of God and the believers as a servant not as in charge - he is a deacon

Therefore the Elders is a false position - The minister is more correct


Keith

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iron sharpens iron

I think only God can judge if being gay is wrong. No matter who they are or who their parents are.

Earnest

While a person may not be able to help being homosexual .... yet the Bible clearly teaches against the practise of homosexual sex. So it is not a matter of being judgmental .... but of believing that the Bible is indeed the word of God, and what the Bible says, God says.

Of course, because homosexuality is an emotive topic at the moment, you could put any of the named sins in your statement .... and this could help to put the matter into perspective ... for instance ...

"I think only God can judge if being a murderer is wrong. No matter who they are or who their parents are."

or

"I think only God can judge if being an adulterer is wrong. No matter who they are or who their parents are."

or

"I think only God can judge if "coveting" is wrong. No matter who they are or who their parents are."

I hope this helps you to understand the problem.

Also there are good resources at bible.org ... just click on the top left hand corner .... following are examples :

bible.org: Homosexuality: The Christian Perspective

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=1302 -


Review of Mel White's What the Bible Saysâ€â€

In answer to the original question

It is wrong to pray in public about matters which are delicate or will cause personal distress - prayer meeting are not for washing other peoples dirty linen in

For the same reason it would be wrong to make a publioc announcment about the matter calling for prayer

These matters are for the private prayers of those who kow or have been told by those concerned.

As for other matters about clear teaching on the matter - that should happen but should not be directly related - to teach it now and never before the event would not be so wise but maybe necessary

Concerning the elder he would take the pressure of everybody if he considered if it would benefit all if he resigned or took a less prominent role -

there are no scriptural basis for elders in the post apostolic age - it is a false position - see my earlier post

The matter is more imperative if the daughter takes the part of a christain - then it has to be faced up to.

Keith

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iron sharpens iron