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I was raised united Methodist. But l married and started going to another denomination. I want to return to UMC but every where I go has a female in the lead prayer and main service. I was raised that this is wrong and I am doing a study on this. I can show that this is wrong thru text, but I don't see how it can be excepted when it is not in line with the word.if you can help I thank you. I have found a lot of text that this is wrong and just not understanding why it is allowed.

I would expect those whom justify it will use the banner of the Socio - Cultural experience of the time, but I am agreeable with you myself

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http://christianfindings.wordpress.com/
http://www.housechurchbrisbane.com/
Favourite verse John 7:37-39

People reach different conclusions depending on the way they interpret scripture, which texts they hold to be dominant or more relevant to their situations. Some look at direct texts to prove their point, others look to the spirit that comes through the teachings.
The Bible is not presented as a systematic theology with a clearly defined set of rules, but as a collection of stories, sometimes called narrative theology.
It certainly appears to me that God blesses the ministry where women lead, so perhaps people could have the same change of mind as when Jewish Christians saw that gentiles received the HS just as they had.

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John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

So then your saying A.Paul's writings were a 'collection of stories' rather than Gods Word led by the Holy Spirit?

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http://christianfindings.wordpress.com/
http://www.housechurchbrisbane.com/
Favourite verse John 7:37-39

I would prefer it if you asked me what I was saying rather than told me what I was saying. Your statement misrepresents my views in a dangerously simplistic way and certainly is not to be concluded from my post.

Do you realise that you are setting up an artificial opposition between narrative theology and the bible being inspired by the Holy Spirit? Not only is this not necessary, it is also incorrect.

The Holy Spirit has lead the authors and canonisers of the Bible to present this wisdom through stories rather than a systematic theology. The Bible does not present us with a Book of Rules, or at least for Christians we are not presented with something like a Levitical Law to follow. The worldly legalistic mind mistakenly clings to finding laws rather than following the 'law of love' which does, in Jesus' view. fulfill the Law and the Prophets. So we have been given stoeries to learn from, rather than a collection of church law or a handbook for Christian Living. I see this as allowing The Word, who is Jesus through the Holy Spirit, to interact with us as individuals and communities. Jesus, The Word of God, certainly can speak to us through the Bible, the word of God, But God has not gone away leaving us with just a set of rules to follow. The Holy Spirit is living in the life of Christians and churches and was not just the inspiration for the scriptures.

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John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

My question why not women? Proverbs 1:8; 31:1 it was a women who is/was my greatest example!

God Bless

'narrative theology' is this not a man made term?

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http://christianfindings.wordpress.com/
http://www.housechurchbrisbane.com/
Favourite verse John 7:37-39

It is in our God given language. Like systematic theology, or trinity. You won't find 'trinity' in the bible. You won't find 'theology' in the Bible. Nor will you find "Bible". I think 'Bible' comes from an Egyptian word.

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John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

Narrative theology, or what is sometimes called “post-liberal” theology, is a recent invention that was developed during the last half of the twentieth century. I think it can be useful when addressing narrative literature, but the texts most relevant to the topic of discussion are epistolary and didactic, not narrative. And while the Bible does not present us with a "book of rules," it certainly does present us with rules that we are to follow in our conduct. We are to love one another, we are to speak the truth, we are to pursue holiness, we are to do all things decently and in order, etc.

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Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!

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i am not saying that they should not or even can not. what i am saying is the authority there. No one out there will say that there are not some women that have a God given talent, and gift. but the ability to fly a airplane dose not give you the authority to do it. Makes one ask why a woman was not one of the 12. or why when there were some very christian females around why one was not given the task to lead in a general mixed gender setting

If you like the UMC, perhaps you could find a similar Free Methodist church. They tend to be much more conservative than the UMC (except for their liturgical style).

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Στηθι εδραιος, ως ακμων τυπτομενος. - Ignatius |II Timothy 4:2| All Scripture is NKJV, unless a translation from the Greek text or otherwise noted.
M.A. Theological Studies (New Testament), Faith Seminary, Tacoma WA
Member, Evangelical Theological Society, North American Patristics Society.
Assistant Editor and contributing author of several published and forthcoming publications.

Isn't everyone a theologian who study God and his plan, and ask a question?
If not what than make a theoloian?

Paul used the Genesis account of Creation to remind men and women of their shared origins
1 Corinthians 11:8-9 he emphasized that both men and women should live in interdependence.
Paul don't leave room for either sex to despise the other.
Women can't be independent from men because woman was created from man.

But neither can men adopt an attitude of prideful disdain for womem, since woman was created because of man's need.

If you see a foundation for male-only leadership, why?

The Bible says God's Word say that woman was "a helper suitable for him" God emphasized that both were made of the same substance.
God said, "a redeemer would come!" Jesus the seed of woman--would restore hope.
Praise God!

this is pulled off another site but he puts it into words better than i can.is any of what said here not true? thanks
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B. Was This Just Paul's Opinion or a Requirement of God?
Some people claim this was just Paul's personal opinion, not Divine regulation

1) It is based on the principle of subjection of women to men. This was a principle established by God and revealed through various inspired teachers, not just Paul. Gen. 2:18; 3:16; Eph. 5:22-33; Col. 3:18; I Cor. 11:3; Tit. 2:4,5; I Pet. 3:1-7; I Cor. 14:34.

2) 1 Cor. 14:34,35 says the same was also taught in the law (Gen. 2:18; 3:16). Hence, it was not just Paul's opinion nor a temporary or local custom but had been the rule even under the Old Testament.

3) 1 Cor. 14:37 expressly states that these teachings were "the commandment of the Lord." Paul was an inspired apostle (2 Cor. 11:5: 12:11,12; 1 Cor. 9:1-5; 15:4-8; Acts 9:15; 26:16). To reject this teaching is to reject the commands of God. See also 1 Thess. 2:13; 4:8; Eph. 3:3-5; Gal. 1:6-12; 1 Cor. 2:1-5,10-16; 2 Peter 3:15,16; Luke 10:16; John 16:13,14; Matt. 18:18;

4) Paul was not prejudiced against women. Much of the teaching about the value of women was done by Paul. See also Eph. 5:25-29,33; Galatians 3:28; Col. 3:19; Acts 16:14,15,40; Rom. 16:1-4,6.

C. Was This a Binding, Permanent Command or Just a Custom of That Day?
Some claim that the teaching about women's subjection was not intended to be permanent but was a local, temporary custom of that day.

1) It is based on the principle of subjection of women to men. This is a universal principle binding on all Christians in the gospel age, taught in other passages including Gen. 2:18; 3:16; Eph. 5:22-33; Col. 3:18; I Cor. 11:3; Tit. 2:4,5; I Pet. 3:1-7; I Cor. 14:34. Note that some of these are taught by inspired men other than Paul.

2) 1 Cor. 14:34,35 says the same was also taught in the law (Gen. 2:18; 3:16). Hence, it was not just a temporary or local custom but had been the rule even under the Old Testament.\

3) V33 says that the things Paul was teaching apply "in all the churches of the saints."

4) Again, 1 Cor. 14:37 expressly states that these teachings were "the commandment of the Lord." Hence, they were not just local, temporary customs. Paul was an inspired apostle. To reject this teaching is to reject the commands of God, not just temporary customs. See passages above.

We must not lightly set aside the teachings of God's word as non-binding customs. Unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, we must accept that which God's word teaches to be Divine command.

My view about woman and authority is they both have an equal right with man counterpart base on the creation plan of God.The first point is that “man” (Adam) is a term which includes both “male and female” Gen 1:27 & Gen 5:1-2 as such” Adam”(man) is a generic name for mankind.

Could it be that the message and the example of Jesus were intended to restore the partnership of the male and female within generic mankind. Gen 1:27-28 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female created he them. And God bless them, And God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth , and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it up and keep it. God’s own evaluation of the situation after the creation of Adam Gen 2:7 that he is not yet perfect and complete creature for God aims in the creation of mankind. Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him. Only with the creation of woman does man exist in complete and harmonious partnership and communion. With the coming into the existence of both man and woman, creation is completed—a fact stressed again in Gen 2 In definition of mankind as bisexual the Creator does not suggest any superiority of one sex above the other. Woman is not subordinate to man; and man is not subordinate to woman, neither one holds an inferior place, nor is the role of one lower than the other.

1Corinthians 11:11-12 Neverthless neither is the man without the woman; neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. v. 12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
In Gen 2:18 God make a “help meet” for Adam ; Eve a woman, so , Jesus promises to us that he shall send a Comforter (helper) in John 14:26 which speak in Hebrews 1:5 Thou art my Son, this day I begotten (born) thee.

All scripture are NKJV unless otherwise indicated.

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How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

Reason why woman was needed in our learning about God. What is the significance of a woman for salvation of our soul?
It is through the woman’s womb shall come forth ; Christ the promise seed that shall bruised the head of the serpent Genesis 3:15 , that shall teach us how to be born again in the incorruptible seed by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever. 1 Peter 1:23 This things is a great and sovereign ability of a woman that a man cannot do.

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How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7