The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

So what is it your friend asking here and what does he expect to do with them.. Maybe bring back the sanitariums of yesterday were they had barbaric things done to them and died and were buried in unmarked graves, One of these comes to mind named WAVERLY HILLS SANATORIUM..

Unless you have lived this such as I have , I had a 24 yr old brother diagnosed with
Schizophrenia and seen the first hand effects that it had on our family all the hardships it cause them, And to let you know me and my wife are in business working with developmentally disabled adults we have a lot of years of experience in the field so we are not new to it.. What about the soldiers coming back from war they to fall in this forget them to ?We as Americans should have compassion on our less fortunate.. Who knows when it could possibly happen to you one day.. Show love and compassion for those less fortunate..

I have been there as part of the eldership of a church with a number of such people in the congregation, so this response includes some of the things we tried - some helped, others not so much.


We are to be generous, especially towards our fellow believers, but the real help is indeed to get them to a position of being able to support themselves. The people who were the most help in our case were also in financial straits - they were generous in other ways - invitations to meals, offering clothing. If it is seen and understood as sharing what we have, then maybe the recipient will see that there is a cost for the giver too. Those who had the money were rarely so generous!

The church had an emergency fund for rent and electricity etc. which was used occasionally, and which came out of general church giving. This allowed some boundaries to be drawn. It was no longer an open handed money on demand situation, but there were some requirements to get help with budgeting, nutrition, filling in forms etc.

An invitation to "come with" so we can both learn, rather than "you ought to go" may help. We were blessed to have a adult literacy and life-skills teacher in the congregation and he ran programs aimed at the whole church, but which the needy in other ways could also attend. Simple meals provided helped to attract the unwilling.

How about actually creating a job? e.g. helping with cleaning, gardening, office duties - what ever their ability is - at church? One of our ladies was able to help with childcare (not on her own), providing a really valued ministry for young mothers who needed a creche so as to do their own bible study group. It might not last long, but little by little self esteem can be rebuilt ... and once that begins, the possibility of acknowledging a need for professional help may come too.


Get the professional advice yourselves. Know exactly what is available and how to go about getting it. There may be Christian people in these organisations who can be particularly helpful, and Christian doctors and counsellors who may be wiling to help those involved understand the issues more deeply.

A mentor, who is strong and patient enough for long term commitment to help, can build trust, go with people to govt offices, to doctors and so on. This is a hard ministry, needs prayer support, but it can be done. I would recommend 2 or 3 sharing the load - the mentally ill can pull the healthy down with their relentless misery and negative outlook on everything, and you need someone to de-brief with and share the load.

One group of mentors, in this case myself and another lady, led a ladies bible study group to which we initially invited just one of these special people amongst the 6 to 8 who came regularly. Prayer for each other's personal needs was always a part of the group. We all agreed nothing was to leave the room ... but soon became aware that some matters were best left unsaid. We attracted even more "needy" types, and yes, some (most) who were well and visited did not stay long. Others stayed the distance for a number of years and befriended the unloveable to all of our benefit. It became a deep and trusted support group for those who everyone else found too hard to deal with, a genuine ministry for those who led it, and good fellowship and learning for all. Somewhere to go, people to talk too, someone to drop in on for a talk - simple things that help keep the symptoms at bay.

A couple of men got alongside the young men with problems, with the support of the youth pastor. Again, meaningful friendships, things to do, non-threatening friends, someone to come to church with, someone to remind you to take your medication etc. They did a lot of practical stuff ... helping shut in people, doing odd jobs at church, going to smaller places to help with kids programs.

jsk945, I hope something in all that might help, even if only as an encouragement to keep trying! Prayer ... patience ... generosity with time even more than with material things ... There is hope for these people; they are never beyond the love and help of God. We are His people here to do what He would have us do in loving others as we have been loved. Having said that, dealing with mental illness can be very frightening and confronting - for those afflicted, and for those who try to help. Pray without ceasing.

_________________
Avid Reader

“Lord, in my zeal for love of truth, let me not forget the truth about love.” - Thomas Aquinas
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forum Code of Conduct
Forum Statement of Beliefs

Eeyore, Avid,

Great posts. I would only add that your "paranoid" individual may have good reasons to be paranoid of a system that can deprive him or her of civil rights. Evidently, they are not paranoid about Christ or your church. See that it stays that way.

Pax

_________________
Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB

Paranoid Personality Disorder is a condition characterized by excessive distrust and suspiciousness of others. This disorder is only diagnosed when these behaviors become persistent and very disabling or distressing. This disorder should not be diagnosed if the distrust and suspiciousness occurs exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia, a Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features, or another Psychotic Disorder or if it is due to the direct physiological effects of a neurological (e.g., temporal lobe epilepsy) or other general medical condition.

Complications:

Individuals with this disorder are generally difficult to get along with and often have problems with close relationships because of their excessive suspiciousness and hostility. Their combative and suspicious nature may elicit a hostile response in others, which then serves to confirm their original expectations. Individuals with this disorder have a need to have a high degree of control over those around them. They are often rigid, critical of others, and unable to collaborate, although they have great difficulty accepting criticism themselves. They often become involved in legal disputes. They may exhibit thinly hidden, unrealistic grandiose fantasies, are often attuned to issues of power and rank, and tend to develop negative stereotypes of others, particularly those from population groups distinct from their own. More severely affected individuals with this disorder may be perceived by others as fanatics and form tightly knit cults or groups with others who share their paranoid beliefs.

Comorbidity:

In response to stress, individuals with this disorder may experience very brief psychotic episodes (lasting minutes to hours). If the psychotic episode lasts longer, this disorder may actually develop into Delusional Disorder or Schizophrenia. Individuals with this disorder are at increased risk for Major Depressive Disorder, Agoraphobia, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Alcohol and Substance-Related Disorders. Other Personality Disorders (especially Schizoid, Schizotypal, Narcissistic, Avoidant, and Borderline) often co-occur with this disorder.

Having grow up with a brother with Schizophrenia he to was very Paranoid..

E,

Honest shrinks will tell you off the record that the diagnosis means nothing. They basically treat symptoms. These "diseases" are invented by committee, not scientific evidence, and constantly change. I'm not saying the symptoms are not real. For a different take on this industry see:

http://www.szasz.com/

Cheers

_________________
Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB

Please can we not go down that path on this thread. It will NOT help the issues raised in the OP. Rest assured, the symptoms are very real, however you choose to label them. Medical professionals have a lot to offer that can and does help alleviate often devastating symptoms.

_________________
Avid Reader

“Lord, in my zeal for love of truth, let me not forget the truth about love.” - Thomas Aquinas
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forum Code of Conduct
Forum Statement of Beliefs

A,

I have not disagreed with anything you have said. ??? I specifically agreed with you.

I was replying to an unexplained quote from DSM-R or something similar. I too, have dealt with this in my family. My only concern re the OP is that this Church maintain the trust of these people.

_________________
Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB

It doesn't seem to me we really need to be talking about mental illness as such, but rather what is our response to those who are not able to cope well with life.

I can't see anything in the bible that says give a couple of things then get tired and quit.

They, in many cases, have a life-long difficulty. We need to look after their needs, find what they can do and see that they are not taken advantage of.

There are indeed a lot of programs and such to help people, but the truth is in many cases that they need mentoring and help to get in the program, help getting to know the people involved, and so on.

In the case of someone paranoid, they are often scared because they basically think of a faceless government. It's important in those cases to help them get to know the individuals they will be dealing with.

One of the first things is often trying to get them medical help. This is actually quite difficult in the US, especially for those who need long term help. Often they don't even have medicaid because they aren't officially in it. Plus, more than a few mental health professionals aren't too excited about accepting medicaid patients. Even with private insurance, coverage is often inadequate to really deal with many cases.

You also run into difficulty helping a person because everything is confidential. You can't find out if they made their appointment, you can't find out what they are prescribed, you can't discuss how they are doing with their doctor. Many health workers will indeed talk to you, but they legally aren't supposed to.

So we end up with the basic way we treat them in our society. We let them wander and we wait and when they break a law we bundle them up and throw them in jail. If they don't break laws we let them just suffer in the streets.

Is it overwhelming? Yeppers. Does it take extraordinary commitment to help them and not worry that you aren't going to have your mansion paid for and a big retirement. Oh, yes. Do we usually fall short? You know it.

I don't really know how it is in other countries. I do know that what we classify as mental illnesses is one of the great shortcomings in the US Antihealth care system.

_________________
Marv
Forum Code of Conduct
The Bible NETWork Doctrinal Statement
The NeXt Bible Learning Environment
The Bible NETwork Blogs

BeneSHOP: Help support Bible.org at no additional cost to you when you shop!

Yeah you are right "Avid "we need to refrain from tit for tat sort of posting..
And "Marv" you are right..
I just wanted to bring up something that few people know unless you work in this field as do me and my wife that a lot of these people have no one to turn to, there own families do not want do deal with them so in plain english someone needs to care for them and thats what my wife and I do we see to there needs to have some kind of a normal life and they have the very basics to and they are so grateful for just having someone who cares and looks out for there needs, We have so many luxuries compared to them but to hear them say thank you, you are like a brother to me is all the thanks I need to see there smiling faces because I just spent 50 dollars for a weeks worth of groceries that is priceless to see them have absolutely nothing and they are happy just because someone cars for them , I will end it with this, We are very fortunate to have such a luxurious life compared to there life..

Eveerybody,
Take it from someone who is mentaly ill, married to a mentaly ill wife. If you realy want to help, 1) Pray before you do any thing!
2) Learn all you can about the illness you are dealing with!
3)research ALL options
4) Be ready to think outside the box, help IS out there IF you are willing to to not rush into things.
5) Seek the council of the wise among you!

Hi there.
I've got a mental illness and my old church specifically reached out to people with mental health problems. We did the chaplaincy at the local mental hospital (that is how I found the church) and encouraged people into fellowship with the church after they were released.

What I can say from my personal experience that I really appreciated was that people understood what I was going through, and understood that I might come to church and not be able to say anything, or be miserable all the time. I liked that we had people who would behave in very strange ways in church, but no one told them off (except to rein in the noise a little bit noise) that you could be mad without rejection. I suppose really what I appreciated - and the others - was that we felt loved no matter how abnormally we behaved.

Practical help - I didn't need it - was very well received too, and I think everyone knew that we didn't have much, but what we could we gave.

I do think it was a good idea that there wasn't just one person looking after a/some mentally ill because - well, its hard work being ill, so it does affect people who care for you too.

But acceptance was the major thing I appreciated, as I became better.

_________________
Striue for the trueth vnto death, and the Lord shall fight for thee.
(Sirach 4:28 KJV)