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For several years now I have been attending ("pew warmer") a lovely church full of wonderful people and only recently (when I felt pushed and pressured to be a more 'active' Christian) did I realise that I actually dislike the concept of Christian lifestyle that is subconsciously preached in churches. Is that wrong? Am I being self-willed?

I've been wondering lately if there is a place in the modern day church for the unsociable and the introvert...some people don't like to sing... some people don't like being around a crowd of people...

I am sorry if I don't come across very well but I have been feeling rather angry lately, first at God (not angry at Him anymore) and then at what I now perceive to be a static church lifestyle (and people confusing this with a Christian lifestyle).

Please help,

Emmy

Hi, Emmy.

Could you be more specific about what it is you dislike about the Christian lifestyle that's being communicated in your church?

I'm not really sure what you mean by Christian lifestyle.

A Christian in the Bible isn't a hermit. Why even Communion is by it's very nature not a solitary thing. Repeatedly the body is spoken of.

So just living by yourself and for yourself doesn't fit.

But at the same time, I notice the Seventh Day Adventist and I'd have to say I'd make a big distinction between being a part of a biblical body and the many lifestyle things that Ellen G. White and others taught that have become a part of many Seventh Day Adventist's lives.

If you are talking of those things I'd have to say they really aren't a part of a Christian lifestyle though many of them can be. Thing is are they taught as a free thing or are they taught as a requirement. If they are required, then I would argue a Christian would fight against them rather than let them be added to the word of God. If they are free, then let them be free.

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Just a tought!
I don't like religious life-style
Christian life-style is freedom from human regulations through life with Christ! Colossians 2:6-12

How comforting to realize that God wants you to be you, and yet how challenging at the same time.
Jesus, "they were astonished at the way He taught." Matt 7:28
Other had said, "Thus says the Lord."

Jesus Said, "I say to you" Mark 1:27 Spiritual authority is a powerful weapon---and a dangerous one---that God entrusts to His servants.

It is a gift, it is a by-product of the Spirit's indwelling and it is the fulness of the indwelling which must be the object of our seeking; if you want to Matt 9:37
Any resulting influencing may be safely be left with God; nothing is less Christ like than a continual looking over the shoulder to see what impression is being made.

But it is a dangerous weapon in that, one in whome divine power is released becomes a prime target for the tempter.
Spiritual arrogance is a close cousin to spiritual authority.

Holy living is more than a quest for ethical perfection.
It is an opening for the Spirit power to work in a person to go into the world. Matt 9:36
Spiritual hunger is part of God's working in our lives; if the hunger is there it is because God longs to satisfy us.

I wrote a reply and I lost it because I had to re-login. Perhaps God didn't like it So I changed my reply.

The SDA lifestyle - healthy eating (vegetarianism), no film or novels that are not biblically based, modest dress, and no alcoholism just to mention the few I can think of at the top of my head - are recommendations only and I have never felt pressured to take upon any of them against my will.

I feel a spiritual need to attend church and I even like it when I am there, even if I am not very sociable. I like communion and group Bible study because there is meaning behind it. I don't like it when things are done just for the sake of it, without any real meaning. Communion is an instruction (a gift) from Jesus Himself and group Bible study is to help prevent misintrepation of verses.

I would like to think the problem is more with myself (because then solutions will be easier to apply). How do you suggest I deal with the following:
- I don't like it when Christianity is lazily strapped onto something and just because it mentions Jesus, it suddenly becomes sacred. For e.g. a Christian bookstore where 70% of its books are trash (not an SDA bookstore but one I will not mention by name) and just because a novel mentions Jesus, it is suddenly not trash anymore.
- A big problem I have is that when I find i don't like something, instead of discussing it, I just will stop attending. For e.g. I used to like church camps (usually these are weekend ones) until we combined with another church and I didn't like how the youth couldn't stop flirting with each other all day, there wasn't enough food for everyone and they were stingy with it, and even though it was a beautiful day outside, the pastor made us sit inside a dark room for the sermon just so he could show us his powerpoint presentation. If I wanted to sit inside, I would have just went to the normal sermon at church - and that's what I did afterwards and never went to church camp again. And the more things like this keep happening, the more non-social I become.

Dear Emmy

What you are saying sounds very familiar ....

We are all different .... and so there is no "one size fits all" category of Christianity. Rather there is wide diversity and that is ok.

But the Christian lifestyle has only two rules ....

Mark 12:29-31 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is: ‘Listen, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” Context (NET)

everything else flows from these two.

Of course, as you so rightly said, communion is commanded by the Lord (and fit in under "love the Lord your God") ....
Also we are commanded not to avoid meeting with each other as here

Hebrews 10:23-25 23 And let us hold unwaveringly to the hope that we confess, for the one who made the promise is trustworthy. 24 And let us take thought of how to spur one another on to love and good works, 25 not abandoning our own meetings, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging each other, and even more so because you see the day drawing near. Context (NET)

which fits under the "love your neighbor" part of the Christian lifestyle.

You see, we put up with other Christians (and they put up with us) because they are beloved of the Lord, bought by His blood, and they are our brothers and sisters in Christ....

So we do it for Christ's sake and as we do, and keep trying with God's help to love the others because He loves them and He loves us.

That is the only way I know how to .... being a slightly unsociable introvert myself.

your sister in Christ

Dinah

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Maybe you don't like the SDA lifestyle, and you have that confused with a Christian lifestyle.

The "Christ" of Christian was not a vegetarian, and He did drink alcohol.

A true Christian lifestyle is one that follows these words of Jesus from Mark 12:

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all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

I agree with the previous posters. When I became a Christian I attended a very conservative (read - legalistic) Baptist church. No drinking, no smoking, no associating with anyone who did anything they did not approve of...very Pharisaic of them really.
Then I went to a very conservative (read - legalistic) Christian college, graduated, and started seminary. I realized that Jesus didn't shun those who were different. He drank wine - he even made wine for a bunch of drunk people! I realized the Christian life and holiness should not be extended beyond what the Bible teaches. We should not call sinful and "poison" (I actually found a Christian website that called all alcohol poison) what the Bible calls a blessing. Paul said we shouldn't get drunk, because it might lead to us doing stupid stuff.
As for the SDA church specifically, I have a saying that I have found more and more applicable as I go about life: "Illogical beliefs or unreasonable expectations always lead to hypocrisy." Jesus said He came to bring us abundant life. Anything or anyone that tries to artificially restrict life beyond what the Bible teaches is sinful, in my opinion. I'll leave it at that.

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Στηθι εδραιος, ως ακμων τυπτομενος. - Ignatius |II Timothy 4:2| All Scripture is NKJV, unless a translation from the Greek text or otherwise noted.
M.A. Theological Studies (New Testament), Faith Seminary, Tacoma WA
Member, Evangelical Theological Society, North American Patristics Society.
Assistant Editor and contributing author of several published and forthcoming publications.

Thank you Dinah, it is good to know I am not alone. Perhaps all I needed was a reminder that everything about being a Christian derives from those two commandments and knowing this gives me a lot more freedom to be the person - Christian - that I am. I guess you are right, if I try to love the other members I can try to be more involved in activities because it makes them happy. It's like.. one of my best friends is very sensitive about birthdays. On the other hand, I do not care very much for birthdays and couldn't care less if everyone forgot it but because it is so important to her, I always make a bit more of an effort to remember her birthday and try to make it special.

First, let me say i agree with the advice shared already as to the "Christian" lifestyle not necessarily being that taught or recommended by a particular group ... but one in which the Lordship of Jesus in our day to day living in taken seriousl, so that our lives are governed by love for God and love for each other.

EmmyC, you ask:

I don't like the way the word "Christian" has been robbed of its meaning either!
I agree too that many so-called "Christian books" are trash - trashy writing, trashy products, and even worse, trashy theology.
There are so many wonderful books written by secular people that shine with Christian ethics and Christian morality. As a teacher of English literature, I am astounded over and over again at how many instances there are in literature where we can point students to the gospel.


There is a balance to be sort here. I think someone has already pointed to it ... even we anti-social introverts are commanded to meet together with other believers to praise God together, for mutual encouragement, teaching and so on. So, we continue to meet together, and over time, as you say yourself, we do enjoy being there with others a lot of the time, most of the time, and hopefully one day all of the time. Some church services, some camp activities, some events are spoiled for one or other by the practical decisions that have to be made. Maybe you have thrown the baby out with the bath water? In John Stott's Meer Christianity (I think) he writes of showing our love for each other by such things as: Accepting that one might kneel to pray while another might sit or stand ... not exactly what he wrote, but along those lines. He suggested each could do what they saw made the other comfortable ... for the sake of love and unity. I think he made a good point when it come to these relatively small matters.

I can't find any command in the bible which says: "Thou shalt attend church camps!" nor that "Thou shalt attend everything the congregation organises!" BUT we are commanded to meet "Do not give up meeting together." Being wise in choosing what to attend is a not a bad thing ... as long as you do remain in fellowship with others and continue to seek to love and serve them, as the Lord leads you or you are called upon to do so.

As a serious after thought though, if you find yourself becoming "anti-social" to the extent it worries you or people express concern for you, maybe you ought to seek some advice to make sure it is not a deeper problem.

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“Lord, in my zeal for love of truth, let me not forget the truth about love.” - Thomas Aquinas
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I am quite defensive of my church and denomination, although I don't like the need to be! There a lots of wonderful things that the SDA church is involved in, one of them that personally touches me is their involvement in helping refugees settle into a country, like what they did for my family about twenty five years ago and what they did for the Karen Christians of Burma who migrated here last year.

I think the different denominations is a good thing. If denominations were people, they would be all the different kinds of characters and personalities in the world today and I think God likes us being different and unique persons. As in Romans 14:5-8

I am probably not the best personality for the SDA church because I am so lax on some of the things which are important to them. They are my church because of what they did for my family years ago (although I am now the only one in my blood family that attends church) and I just feel that it was the church God directed me to. To leave the church on issues of doctrine (when they keep the first two commandments like every other denomination) or even because of people feels petty to me and it would be a betrayal to my own self.

I have been doing a lot of thinking (and feeling - anger and confusion usually) over the past few weeks and I am fairly certain that the issues I have been concerned with transcend denomination.

I love to read so I could never ever give it up (unless I went blind and then there's always audio books ) which is something I am at odds with Ellen G White and her recommendation not to read any novels that were not biblically based. Obviously she must not have been a great reader! But that said, at the end of the day no one tries to stop me from reading whatever I wish, so there isn't really any issue there.

I don't like to see the efforts and self-honesty of many great secular writers so easily dismissed just because they weren't Christian or because they didn't focus on Christianity. I didn't realise until I mentioned it but my solution to how I was feeling is that I've stopped going to this particular bookstore because I'm so ed by the rubbish that is sold there. This makes me sad because I have found some really good books there, even if they are dwarfed by the amount of trashy books.

Perhaps there is a better way I can deal with this? Should I be more accepting?

IMHO your points made about the bookstore are judgmental and unrealistic. Part of living in this world is cultivating the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff. SDA bookstores and books are not perfect. No other "Christian" bookstore is either. Expecting perfection and judging based upon that expectation is a pharisaical action and not a Christian attitude. Within all these bookstores are those books which are edifying and truly great reads. Even within these edifying books there are, at times, things which need to be taken with a grain of salt or, perhaps, simply read and not retained. True the "Christian" label in many cases has been hijacked. Is there any reason we should be surprised? Has not our Lord himself warned us of such things?

Your points about church camp seem to reflect the same attitude. You wish to go out and enjoy the day. However, what was the purpose of the camp in the first place? Did you consider that the Lord might have wanted you to learn something from the speaker? You've judged the pastor’s heart here and his intent. I wonder what your basis is for such a harsh judgment. Was this man overly proud of his PowerPoint presentation...or were you overly resistant to his message (perhaps even a message intended for you by the Lord himself)?
You are angry with young folk "flirting" with each other all day. Would you rather they go elsewhere and flirt? Perhaps they don't belong and are unworthy to attend such a holy camp. Maybe your expectation of that camp was for it to be a very holy and perfect place where no one gained any teaching and only enjoyed the beautiful weather. They should not express their interests in each other and certainly should not be looking for a future spouse in a place filled with people of like faith. Perhaps they should go to their public school and seek out a spouse from the unbelievers. Please don’t take me the wrong way. I don’t believe church camps should be “dating services.” However, we all challenge our young men and ladies to find a mate of like faith so that they’ll grow together in faith and practice. Most of our churches are small (nearly all SDA churches are) and that limits the possibilities of faithful candidates. Can the Lord not use a camp to grow someone spiritually and also help that same person find a suitable future mate?

These things do not seem to me to be introversion. They seem more to me like phariseeism. Expecting something of others that we ourselves cannot possibly achieve.

First I would suggest you make an adjustment to your attitude. Please, take a serious look at the following Scriptures. John 13:34-35; 15:12-17; Romans 12:9-13 (esp verse 10); Romans 13:8; Gal 5:13; Eph. 4:2; 1 Thess. 3:12; Heb. 10:24; 1 Pet. 1:22; 1 Pet. 3:8-9; 1 Pet. 4:8-11; & 1 John 4:11-12.
Next, find the good in things and stop being so critical. Christians need to be a bit critical and use their wisdom to separate "wheat from chaff". But we can and often do take this too far and become overly critical (judgmental) and push people away. I may be wrong, but i think this is what you may be doing.
Last, don't expect perfection form yourself and other people. This is not the gospel but rather it is living bound to the Law. Accept the perfection freely given by Jesus Christ. Live humbly for Him and reflect the grace he so freely gave to you. Encourage things that are good and shun those things which are evil.....but do these things always with a loving and gentle attitude. (BTW I mess up often here and so will you but we must try and grow in trying.)
Blessings,
Randy

I think you may mean either C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity or John Stott's Basic Christianity, not certain which.

This whole discussion has reminded me of a poem I heard 30 years ago and only recently found it again. It is a reminder to all of us that there may be more than one way to worship God. It goes like this:

THE PRAYER OF CYRUS BROWN
by Sam Walter Foss

"The proper way for a man to pray,"
Said Deacon Lemuel Keyes,
"And the only proper attitude
Is down upon his knees."

"No, I should say the way to pray,"
Said Reverend Doctor Wise,
"Is standing straight with outstretched arms
And rapt and upturned eyes."

"Oh, no, no, no,"
said Elder Slow,
Such posture is too proud.
"A man should pray with eyes fast-closed
And head contritely bowed."

"It seems to me his hands should be
Austerely clasped in front
With both thumbs pointing toward the ground,"
Said Reverend Doctor Blunt.

"Last year I fell in Hidgekin's well
Headfirst," said Cyrus Brown,
"With both my heels a-stickin' up
And my head a-pointin' down.

"And I made a prayer right then and there,
The best prayer I ever said,
The prayingest prayer I ever prayed,
Was standin' on my head."

Hope it somehow relates to this thread, and if not, that whoever reads it may at least get a chuckle from it.

Regards.

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I loved the poem!!!

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Jennifer Dent
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