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I think too much has been made of this whole question .... and it is more of a remnant of a patriarchal culture than it is biblical. Firstly from Genesis .... "helper" has connotations in English that it never had in Hebrew ....e.g. the word is used of God !!!!

Even the usual paradigm in Proverbs 31 .... look at all the things the ideal woman does! ... she certainly does not just stay home and mind the children.

more enlightening for me is Jesus' comment on marriage, that they are now "one flesh" .... that is, one organism, one unit .... so they should function as a unit, and here I think of Paul's analogy of the body .... it is a matter of gifts, abilities and what works best for the unit!

There is always the problem of male pride of course .... and wise women have been careful in handling this for a long time.

my 2 cents worth

Dinah

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Do females not have pride?

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Strider

of course

in fact, we must have more than most . ... as God has been placing us in positions that have made us deal with it for thousands of years!

But that is the thing .... in our patriarchal culture, I don't think men have had to deal with it anywhere near as much, nor even to think about it (my opinion of course) ... this is what I get from reading the usual comments which show such a casual assumption of right ... God gave me the authority because He made me a man .... and sadly what I also get is "you were born to be a servant to men (not put in those terms of course, but the way "helper" is used has exactly those connotations) for no other reason than God made you a woman.

Sorry, but it comes across as so condescending .... for instance in this discussion, if you turned the question around and made the woman the beneficiary, there would be no discussion at all ....

the thing is from my reading of the Bible, with its ongoing story, and its slow reversal of all the curses of the Fall .... I don't think that God meant for a hierarchical system to be set in stone, especially among His people.

in Christ

Dinah

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If relationships among Christians are the way you describe, then we all have a lot of growing to do. Consider the following:

Eph 5:25 25 Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her Context (NET)

Mat 20:25-28 25 But Jesus called them and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in high positions use their authority over them. 26 It must not be this way among you! Instead whoever wants to be great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave – 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Context (NET)

The pattern for leadership and followership among us is to be completely different from the pattern set by this world.

Not that I've acheived this in my own marriage. I still have a long way to go, and little time left to do it in.

On another sub topic,
I'm not sure from your words, but you may be underestimating the extent to which men's existence, up to this point in time has been characterized by the struggle for supremacy vis a vis other men. That's actually diminishing today, at the same time that women are struggling harder than ever for supremacy not only vis a vis men but also vis a vis other women.

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actually, I agree with you ..... you see (again my opinion), equality for women should have come from the church, but reading history the church was the most adamant voice loudly proclaiming the subordination of women (God-ordained subordination at that!).

I have noticed, thinking back over my life and musing over history, that if the Church does not do what we should be doing, then God moves others to do the work .... but I think also, that it is never as good as it could have been if done from a truly Christian perspective.

So then, in our culture, the time had come for true equality between man and woman - as it was before the Fall. .... BUT .... because this move had to come from the secular arm, then it has also led to what you describe .... women trying not only to be like men, but trying to surpass men .... and not in a good way, but men at their worst.

It is not really equality, rather it is reverse Patriarchalism - women trying to gain freedom by becoming like men.

Cherish your marriage, it is God's precious gift. I thank God every day for my husband, who is my strength and support and yet who cherishes my freedom more than I do.

in Christ

Dinah

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Our recent exchange of posts in this discussion led me to start all the way back at the OP, and read (or at least skim) forward. When I came across this, my reaction is that you had already expressed some two years ago, the point I was driving at when I cited two bible quotes to you. (Eph 5:25, Mat 20:25-26 unless my meory is tripping me up again).



I largely agree with the point you express here, particularly in the context of the OP. Whatever differences I might have I regard as minor quibbles.

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At the risk of beating a dead horse, the issues of hierarchy, patriarchy, and the collapse of the existing order affect a lot more than just the issue that gave rise to the OP. Thet deserve more discussion, either in this discussion or another one.

First off, with regard to the OP, I think the early responses pretty much hit the nail on the head. A decision like this has to be made by consensus between the two spouses. And you have to beware of the forced consensus, where one spouse (in this case the wife) gives consent against her own sense of what is right just to keep peace in the family.

To some people, just the mention of consensus in marriage suggests that the man is derelict in his duty to be the head of the household. To some other people, the issue is moot because women have been getting their way for thousands of years with less ostensible power than their husbands, just by using subterfuge and manipulation.

If I were asked about this case, I'd want to know what makes sense. If the wife can get $80k a year as a data architect, while the husband can only earn $12 an hour as a file clerk, it makes sense fr the wife to go off to work and for the husband to do something else. If the evangelising ministry is a goal that has been accepted by both spouses and is one that the husband is best suited for is another consideration.

I'm well aware that whether it appears to make sense and whether it's biblical or not are two separate questions. But I think it's a mistake to dismiss common sense as a consideration when Christians are making decisions.

After this post dealing with the OP, I'm going to branch off into questions about patriarchy in the church, if I can do so without hijacking the discussion.

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Probably be best to start a a new topic