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My wife believes that God gave her the scripture in Ezra 10 to condone divorce.I love my wife and even though we have problems im willing to work them out and love my family.Please leave response because i believe God hates divorce. We have a great son that wants us together.Also she says God came to her and said we shouldnt have gotten married,I dont believe God curses any marraige where both partners are Christians please GIVE ME YOUR FEEDBACK .Im not willing to give up my family so my wife can marry another.Thanks to you all

It sounds like your wife has decided the Bible is a spiritual talisman that she can take completely out of context but which is used by God to make special revelations to her.

First, we need to cut through the garbage. Her heart is hard and she is simply using anything she can to appear to confirm what she has decided.

The best advice I can give you is not to get into a theological arguement between the two of you. If you point out that at best divorce was permitted in the case of unbelievers who wanted divorce, she will then probably come to the revelation you are not a believer and so on.

This is a case to run, not walk to the elders of your congregation. You don't keep this a secret, you put it right out in the open and you ask for help.

Let's admit right now, how much weight is anything coming from you going to have to convince her against what she has already decided? Shall we guess less than nothing?

You need to get all those people in her life that you can involved. It should be people she respects, people who she hasn't been building a wall of hate against as she has been building against you.

If they go and they flat out tell her how wrong what she is thinking is. How such is not from God. How her sin is blinding her. Then, there might be a chance that she will turn in time.

The last people you need around are those who think if a person is destroying themselves you must support them by telling them everything is alright and to go right ahead. You know the type don't go to those people, their "support" will simply be seen by her as confirmation she is correct.

I'm a bit concerned about pointing you to your spiritual leaders because your wife seems to be involved in some pagan religion and I'm hoping it is not a reflection of what is taught in your church, but in any case, that church, and your family is where you go. If the church is totally incapable of helping, but is actually the source of this nonsense, then you know something else important and you can fix that later.

Pray... Pray...Pray...Pray...Pray...Pray... and then Pray some more

Been there myself. Of course, pray God will change her mind. But pray more toward the fact that God will show you what is wrong in your life. Don't beat her across the head with scripture. Simply point out the sayings of Jesus on divorce. Don't argue. Just do the best you can. You cannot take control of her heart, but you can take control of yours and not allow things to degrade into a pushing match. Let her go. If He does not change her heart, you will know it. Concetrate on being the best husband you can be. Concentrate on being the best father you can be. Don't get pulled down into the fight. Don't run her down. Joseph, being a righteous man considered giving Mary a private divorce in order not to embarass both of them(until he found out her pregnacy was from the lord). Chances are her heart and mind are bound up in Satan. Her willful want of divorce is a sign that she may indeed not be saved. Don't try to convince or convict her of her wrong. Let God do that if He chooses.

The reality is very few marriages at this point are reconciled. They are reconcilable; all are if both hearts are softened by the Lord. God does hate divorce, because he never intended for sin to enter the picture. There are few things in life that are more painful. God hates to see his chosen children suffering. He hates the anger and resentment divorce causes. He hates when little children are separated from their parents because of it. Yes, God hates divorce even in the cases of adultry. But God has something greater than your marriage for you. He has His grace that is sufficient to see you through this, even through a divorce or possibly through a reconciliation. Let him wrap his loving arms around you. Let his grace permeate your whole life. Pray for grace for your wife.

First, ask her if her prophet/priest/scribe of the law of Moses has commanded that she do this. In context, it was suggested to Ezra that the men of God separate from the foreign women. Ezra thought it a good idea, so he commanded that it be done. And the men obeyed. If she recognizes no earthly authority (which would then make this whole passage null and void it seems), ask her is SHE has gone without food and water for several days as she mourned her marriage to you.

Ask her if she is willing to sacrifice a ram after you two have been "separated" as a guilt offering. Also ask her if she considers herself a "foreign woman". After all, it was the MEN who separated from the foreign women, not the other way around. You say you are both Christians, so it sounds like neither of you would be "foreign".

It sounds like she is desperately trying to "cherry-pick" scripture to find SOMEthing to spiritualize what her hardened heart is leading her to do, yet I doubt she is willing to follow ALL of Ezra 10, but i might be wrong. This happens ALL TO OFTEN in Christendom. Our heart hardens, but we want to find something in scripture that lines up with what we want to do. You are exactly right: God HATES DIVORCE! And from reading the New Testament, it sounds like He hates remarriage even more. You might also ask your wife if she is prepared to live a single and celibate lifestyle after abandoning you and your son.

Also, remind her of the VOWS you BOTH (presumably) made TO GOD before witnesses. "For better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, til death do you part."

Lastly, and ultimately far most important: BE Christ to your wife and family. You are to be the "servant of servants" as the priest of your home. Love, humility, patience, and generosity can do a world of good and might change her heart.

Elric:

Sorry to hear of the state of your marriage. I've seen cases where problems go so far that the woman basically just shuts down and no longer desires to repair the relationship. I pray that's not the case with your wife.

As for Ezra 10, there's no doubt the text proves that divorce is not ipso facto wrong -- i.e., it's not wrong in and of itself. God would never, for example, command someone to worship an idol. That's inherently wrong. Biblical teaching on permissible divorce is complex and I believe it would be inappropriate for this thread to morph into an argument (er, discussion) of that topic. But Ezra 10 certainly takes it out the absolute category.

But, just because divorce is permissible in some cases doesn't give one license to pursue it in any given case. You and your wife are both Christians, I gather. The situation in Ezra dealt with marriages between Jews and pagans. The closest equivalent to that in our dispensation would be a marriage between a Christian and a non-Christian. But even that's not an automatic basis for divorce (1 Corinthians 7). So your wife is completely off-base in attempting to justify her desire to dissolve your marriage on that text.

Which makes it particularly curious that she believes that God "gave" her that passage of Scripture. I should think God would practice better exegesis than something so obviously fallacious.

I'm not sure why this line of reasoning appears "pagan" to Marv. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard a Christian -- primarily Charismatics, but by no means do they have a monopoly on this -- claim that God has given him some special revelation. I believe it's wrong, but it actually sounds more Christian than pagan to me.

It may be entirely possible that you and your wife are less than ideal for each other ("said we shouldnt have gotten married"), but that in itself isn't proper motivation for ending a marriage. We all have to live with the consequences of our choices.

Mark makes an excellent observation: focus more on where you're coming up short than on where she is. There's no way I can speak to anything specific in your relationship, but in my experience the overwhelming majority of troubled Christian marriages are rooted primarily in the husband's failure to love his wife as Christ loves the church (an extremely tall order, to be sure, but one that must be approached if not accomplished). As I said above, in many cases by the time it reaches the "I want a divorce!" stage, the wife has already pretty much written the marriage off in her heart. It requires a deep and abiding commitment by the husband in that context to persuade her to reopen her heart.

Spoken like someone who has never been there. I was told this at the beginning as well when my wife left me. People put me on guilt trips and I did not want to expose things that I eventually had to in order to get them to quit. I had documented evidence of her infidelity from nearly the start of my marriage, which I found most of it after she abandoned me. I have since found out that I am not alone in this. Women who leave or want to leave because of true hardness of the heart is rampant. It seems that after my divorce, God opened the doors to me to meet men going through the same thing that I went through, all freakishly close to the same situation. It was almost as if a demonic power was using the same m/o to destroy marriages. These are and in past cases God loving kind men at home and in public. There is a hardness that develops unexplained in mortal terms in a women's heart. From her statements, I would guess that there is some infidelity on the wife's side thus her rationalizing her want for divorce, even if she denies it, I would suspect something is there.

Of course I have observed the situation on the other way around, even recently. But again the M/o is usually the same.

Well, Mark, you're correct. I've never been divorced. So I guess I "haven't been there."

As I stated, though, my observation was that in my experience in dealing with people that the majority -- not all -- cases fall into this pattern.

I'll chalk you up as representing a very real minority.

I would say not a minority these days. 20 years ago yes, but now and according to pastors that I spoke with, they are seeing many that are the otherway around.

Dear friends

It seems that elric72 joined the forum to get a quick answer to a complicated question. He has only posted once and returned approximately three hours after his initial post for an answer never to login again. It is of course possible that he could've read this thread without logging in. However, the phenomenon of getting a quick-fix on the Internet is not uncommon, especially if elric72 doesn't belong to a specific church or denomination.

Observing this thread and seeing the various presuppositions and the way that it colours our advice to elric72, it shows the complexity of divorce. I was wondering if the Bible didn't become part of accusations thrown to and fro between elric72 and his wife in an argument. I've recently experienced a situation where a husband and wife whose marriage has deteriorated almost to the point of no return, were both using Bible verses to justify their stance. Even Christians can loose perspective in challenging relationships and sometimes the Bible becomes a boxing glove to get to each other.

It is possible that elric72 is not in the same situation as the one described by me. It is possible that his wife has cheated on him. However, the facts are too few to really assist him.

I like both Marv and Obadiah's initial posts, although I don't know how Marv came to the conclusion that elric72's wife may be involved in a Pagan religion. However, it is probably only Marv's post that may have been read by elric72.

I've always thought that if Jesus said something that is different or reinterpreting the Old Testament, it is better to follow His stance. Yet Paul went in 1 Corinthians and readjusted and expanded on Jesus' basic teaching on divorce. Yet, I'll keep more or less to the New Testament, when coming to understanding matters of divorce in the light of Scripture.

Kind regards


Elimelek

[p.s. Should this post not be under General Bible discussions, rather that a specific Old Testament question?]

Malachi 2:13-16.
God truly hates a divorcing.

I believe it was Smalley in his book, "If Only He Knew" proposed the same thought as Obadiah.

I cannot speak to Obadiah's experience, but believe this is a dangerous position to hold and especially dangerous to publically announce. If we are to pull out such passages to men who are involved in divorce then what do we do with the following for women?

Ephesians 5:22-24 22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord, 23 because the husband is the head of the wife as also Christ is the head of the church – he himself being the savior of the body. 24 But as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Context (NET)

1 Peter 3:1-6 1 In the same way, wives, be subject to your own husbands. Then, even if some are disobedient to the word, they will be won over without a word by the way you live, 2 when they see your pure and reverent conduct. 3 Let your beauty not be external – the braiding of hair and wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes – 4 but the inner person of the heart, the lasting beauty of a gentle and tranquil spirit, which is precious in God’s sight. 5 For in the same way the holy women who hoped in God long ago adorned themselves by being subject to their husbands, 6 like Sarah who obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. You become her children when you do what is good and have no fear in doing so. Context (NET)

Titus 2:4-5 4 In this way they will train the younger women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be self-controlled, pure, fulfilling their duties at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the message of God may not be discredited. Context (NET)

Colossians 3:18 18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Context (NET)

Truly, many of these passages have been taken out of context and used to abuse the right treatment of women in the church. But they do have something to say about proper Biblical relationships. I believe they also balance the guidance given to the men in proper Biblical relationships. IMHO, to take the view that men are most of the problem in most unharmonious marital relationships would remove the balance given to us Biblically and insert an opinion which isn't represented Biblically.

I think the advice to "run" to the Biblical Church for help and guidance is right on target. I also think that the advice given for one to work on his/her own relationship with God and serve their spouse no matter the situation is also right on. IMHO to take this position (that men are primarily the ones who've failed) places undue pressure and guilt upon one party (men) and gives ammunition to the other party (women) for their fallen human nature to fire at their relationships.

Blessings,
Randy

And yet HE gave a writ of divorce to His beloved
Theres a bit more to the story than an out of context verse in Malachi .

DIB (mentioned above) gives an excellent presentation on the Malachi passage, which he cites largely from G.P. Hugenberger.

It's a great read, but to summarize, the text does not say that "God hates divorce." It's talking about one who "hates and divorces" -- i.e., one who divorces without proper grounds. The subject of the verb isn't God at all.
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Randy:

As I said above, I was sharing my own experience. It's entirely possible yours is different.

I agree completely that marriage is a two-way street, and that rarely if ever is one party solely to blame for its demise.