The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

Alcohol is a deadly ingredient for most endeavors except staying at home.

I maintain weapons suitable for militia use. Just as the last century saw governments behind all the genocides, I see the threat today still. I want the government handicapped if they decide we can't make decisions for ourselves or if they want to simply make us do what they wish.

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I am a stranger in a wicked and adulterous land. I look forward to returning home one day.

What I said was, "armed insurrection is the last line of defense".

The people who make the point that Hitler took individual's guns away are implicitly making this poinr.

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Not all those who wander are lost.

As far as terrorists ans guns is concerned, you have to look at that guy in Norway. His home made bomb only took 8 lives. He shot something like 67 people.

If we include berserkers as well as terrorists, the kids in Columbine used home made bombs and guns. It was the guns that took the lives.

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Not all those who wander are lost.

As far as interpeting the constitution goes, I'm strongly in favor of the idea that the constitution does not change its meaning just because times have changed.

The second amendment means what it has always meant, even if that meaning has been rendered obsolete by the forward march of history. If we want to change its meaning, we have to amend the constitution again.

This can be enormously inconvenient, awkward, and slow. But the alternative is to say that the constitution means whatever the majority wants it to mean, or perhaps whatever the majority on the bench wants it to mean. That's the road to tyranny.

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Not all those who wander are lost.

Yep. Bombs may be scary, but they're difficult to build and deploy effectively. A gun is a much more effective tool for mass murder.

-Dan.

Don't forget to take the poll, guys - the results of the poll do not appear to match the responses so far!

But I'll weigh in: I think the Terrorism Watchlist people need to lose their existing permissions. If you're on the Watchlist, you'd have a lot of explaining to do, anyway - I don't see what the problem is in at least suspending that person's existing permissions. If people don't like that, IMO they should be actively cooperating with the government to clear their names. Also, Cow's point about requiring nationwide registration of guns is a good one. I would also like to see suspension of existing permissions for people with a history of drug or alcohol abuse (no surprise there, surely).

Marcus' point re: the Watchlist itself should certainly be looked into. People need to be given an opportunity to clear their names if there is some sort of misunderstanding. But I would expect them to make the effort to jump through those hoops and not just sit around saying, "I have a right to own a gun, and if I'm on the list that's just too bad." Get yourself off the list if you want the gun. Do something! But the FBI needs to give them something to do about it, of course.

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Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine

Oh what a foretaste of glory divine!

You have to know you are on it first. Denial of rights based on suspicion and not through a factual determination through a court process is fascism. I don't support this sort of tyrannical process. You may as well burn the Bill of Rights and all of our documents from the founding of the country because you are ignoring the ideas behind them all. I don't support this sort of thing at all. This is an attack on our inalienable rights and form of government. The worst part is it comes from many of our citizens. It is also one of the tools used in many of the tyrannies of the 20th Century. Now it has traction here of all countries.

From what I've read up to 30%, on the list are from terrorists using aliases and bureaucratic confusion over names. Many of them have no idea they are on it and can't find out why they are on the list to begin with. The appeal process is murky and not meant to be cleared. The obvious potential for abuse to deny people their rights and take action based on this sickens me.

I can tell you the practical impact this has. I'm an airline pilot and have had passengers held up from boarding because their name was on the No Fly List. We delayed the flight because they were verifying whether or not the person was the same person as a name on the list. When I asked simple questions (such as is this the same person, why are they on the list, etc.) I got conflicting answers from each person involved in the process. It plants suspicion in the minds of those who know. It creates distrust that can be unwarranted. I don't trust the accuracy of the list after what I found out. I was left to mull over denying this person their seat because of this. By federal law, the pilot in command is the final authority for the operation of an aircraft. I can deny boarding to anyone I deem necessary.

I believe that rights came from God. I am a true believer in most of what our Founding Fathers put into our Declaration, Constitution, and Bill of Rights. I will fight to uphold them. I would rather die living them out and defending them than to cross the line to fascism. This crosses the line for me.

BTW I took them with on the flight.

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I am a stranger in a wicked and adulterous land. I look forward to returning home one day.

Strider33 brought up good points though - guns are dangerous, and that danger could arguably justify a certain amount of control and regulation. All things remaining equal, people would still retain their right to own a gun, subject to certain restrictions that everyone can agree on. I find it heartening that most NRA members would in fact support certain restrictions, in the interest of public safety.

Question for you, Marcus: how do you think the Zimmerman situation should shape the current dialogue on gun control? Do you think alcohol or drug abuse history should play a role in who gets to have a firearm?

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Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine

Oh what a foretaste of glory divine!

I think the anti-constitutional crowd is using the Zimmerman case for their own ends. I also believe that the facts of the case are what's important in there. The law isn't wrong but the facts aren't out publicly. We have a lot of emotion clouding the issue along with the threat of riots being used to pressure the system to come to a predetermined outcome irregardless of the facts of the case. People aren't willing to wait for the investigation to be complete. Many seem to want Zimmerman dead no matter the facts. As the New Black Panthers were saying.

As far as alcohol or drug use goes. It should only be used if there is a conviction or several doctor's diagnosis of abuse. I think allegations should not bar liberty. The standard has to remain high.

We have plenty of firearms regulations. Our problem is with enforcement and prosecution. We don't need more regulation. We need more consistency and defense of individual rights. If you want to save lives, look at the automobile accident rate. There is an area needing tighter standards.

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I am a stranger in a wicked and adulterous land. I look forward to returning home one day.

I know the question was directed toward marcus, but I don't think the Zimmerman case should have any bearing at all on the issue of gun control. That is what the media and this administration are trying to do with this story (besides making it into a race issue). I think that adding more and more laws onto the books will not fix this issue. There are always those who are going to break the laws because they don't care about others or the consequences of their actions. What I think will fix this issue is for families to start being families again, for dads to start being dads to their children, for mothers to begin being mothers. For them, as one, to teach their children right from wrong, to do what is right and to reject what is wrong. Be responsible parents by leading by example, letting your actions speak instead of empty words that sound like "Do as I say, not as I do." Our young ones are so messed up and confused in this generation, not knowing what to do or who to believe, so they do what is right in their own eyes. We all know where that leads. This steep slide down to the depths of moral depravity in this country has been going on for generations, and its pace has quickened as it grows closer to the bottom. Until the church in this nation begins to do what we have been taught to do in the Scriptures, to live lives of truth, charity and love instead of lives of bigotry and hypocrisy (in the eyes of the world; well, somtimes in truth, too), the people of this nation will continue to be without hope and helpless to resist such decline into sin.

All that to say, no, I don't think the Zimmerman case should have any bearing on the rights of American citizens to keep and bear arms. These rights contained within the constitution are inalienable rights, which means that they cannot be bought, sold, taken or traded or given away. They were given to us by God.

Added: Of course I am not directing this toward all families. There are millions and millions of families in this nation who do just what I have stated above. In these families, there is little or no risk of one of them using a firearm in in such harmful ways as has been discussed so far in this thread.

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Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell

We definitely haven't made full use of the regulations we already have. The guy who shot Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was mentally ill, and yet he had an assault rifle! We need to be able to devote enough resources to enforcing the regulations we already have, before more regulations would even become realistic.

Also, just as with mental illness, the drug or alcohol issue would also be certified by a physician, or as in Zimmerman's case, convictions for it.

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Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine

Oh what a foretaste of glory divine!

The problem isn't resources but will to not bargain away charges to make a conviction.

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I am a stranger in a wicked and adulterous land. I look forward to returning home one day.

Our law enforcement community has a terrible time maintaining accurate records. They also have a problem with purging completely records of those acquitted. If any area needs more resources, it's law enforcement records.

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I am a stranger in a wicked and adulterous land. I look forward to returning home one day.

Loughner used one of the most common police issue sidearms, a Glock 19. Where did you see he had an assault rifle? I haven't found any reference to that yet. An assault rifle is a functional term not an ergonomic one. An assault rifle can be fired both semi and fully automatically. If Jared Loughner had an assault rifle he would have paid at the Class III tax and passed the additional background screening by the ATF for legally owning one.

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I am a stranger in a wicked and adulterous land. I look forward to returning home one day.

You mean there's something worse than the Glock?

It seemed to be as much of an "assault rifle" as anything I'd ever heard of.

I think I'm going to be sick!

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Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine

Oh what a foretaste of glory divine!