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One would think that everyone who is concerned for women and women's rights would want a woman to have the information that an ultrasound reveals before making the irreversible decision to abort her child. Unfortunately, many who claim such concerns really have a very different agenda and in truth care nothing about defending or protecting women.

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abortion = murder

if you become pregnant, delivery your baby & give it up for adoption if you must -- then the child is not punished

What pertinent information would the ultrasound provide that she doesn't already have?

-Dan.

She would in most cases see that the child she is thinking of aborting is not just a "blob of tissue," as abortion workers are wont to say.

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They might not know they have a ectopic pregnancy...

This sound good to me, hopefully it will change any mind once they see an ultrasound (hopefully some kind of motherly instinct will kick in.)

I think that women seeking an abortion should have the option to view the ultrasound - I do not think they should be mandatory.

I agree that abortion is wrong however making a law that "requires" an ultrasound is wrong as well. I agree women should get ALL the facts and this doesn't always happen but "requiring" this procedure is also not a solution. Depending on the length of pregnancy the type of ultrasound that would be required can be painful.

The government should not have that much power to tell a woman what she can and can not do to her body. This is where having Christian counselors who work in that type of environment are essential - ALL a woman's options should be discussed for any procedures are completed.

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Jennifer Dent
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Jenn,

Your comment is very interesting.

I wonder whether the ultrasound requirement is intended to protect the mother or the fetus.

Certainly it's my hope that some women, after viewing the ultrasound, will go ahead with the pregnancy. Certainly some women who opt for abortion experience remorse later.

I also think that liberty includes the liberty to make wrong choices and that government overreaches when it tries to protect individuals from themselves. With regard to eating foods containing trans fat, the conclusion is obvious. With regard to having abortion without getting an ultrasound, the issues are more complicated. Another individual is involved, namely the unborn baby.

At what point does the state have the mandate to infringe on the mother's liberty in order to protect the legitimate rights of the unborn baby. I submit that there is no national consensus concerning what those rights are nor about what the proper role of the state is.

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And therein lies the problem.

Like I said I disagree with abortion but where does the "state" intrusion end? It's a fine line -

It is my understanding that ultrasounds are already done before an abortion takes place (at least the belly ones)- I believe the difference here is making the patient view the results, that is currently not required - they don't have to hear the heart beat either...which is where I think 'wires get crossed' I'm doing more research into this but I think that is what they are trying to get changed - making the viewing/listening to be required - which (while it may help some in changing their minds) is going to far for any government to "Require"

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Here's my take.

The patient should be offered the opportunity to view the results of the ultrasound. Full information for the patient ought to mean that the patient is told that some patients who view the ultrasound end up regretting the choice they make or making a choice they regret.

A patient who opts not to view the ultrasound should not be denied an abortion on that basis.

I'm concerned that some practitioners carry out an ultrasound for medical purposes, but do not offer the patient the option of viewiing it. This might be out of concern for the patient's emotional well being. But my concern differs from theirs.

Whenever men, including me, get involved in discussing abortion law, it's inevitable that we're discussing matters whose consequences do not affect us as individuals. I recognize that. At the same time, I don't think that remaining silent on the abortion issue is the right choice for a man, either.

I'm relying on the leadership of Christian women to influence the public at large in the handling of this issue, an issue of life and death. I know the term "leadership of Christian women" is going to push somebody's buttons. I don't intend that, but I don't see a way around it.

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Not all those who wander are lost.

I have no problem with the concept in theory. But the government forcing it is where I question the wisdom. The movement to marginalize abortion services has led to the clinic industry and providers are less safe. Women get less balanced "advice" than they would from a typical OB-GYN. I know some OB's that are not religious that would give their patients accurate information about options and not rush the woman to abort just because she comes in the door.

There are ways around the ultrasound mandate by "fudging" the process to where nothing is clear to the patient.

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Very very well said!

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Jennifer Dent
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I think Jenn has a good point. However, I'm told that a very large percentage of those mothers who view an ultrasound opt not to have the abortion. Therein lies the rub for me. It is easier to pull the trigger if you cannot see the target than when looking at a human being the eye.

So much of this conversation has revolved around the womans "choice" and the womans "right". Nowhere has the conversation really considered the right of the fathers. It seems to me that currently the legal responsibility of the father begins only at the birth of the baby. Then he is rightly held responsible for helping in the care and decisions for maturation process. Why is there no right for the father before birth? Admittedly a great many of these "dads" are not interested in raising kids. (Many along with their partners were only interested in momentary sexual satisfaction) What about the "dads" who are concerned for the child?

What about the rights of the unborn individual.
This topic continually grieves me because we are giving individuals the right to destroy another human life because of convienience or the lack thereof. In the US overall you have the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.." unless your mother sees you as an inconvienience while you are in the womb. Because you will be a large discomfort for a few months and result in a great deal of changes in your mothers body...as well as life. Because mom is unwilling to change her "life-style" to care for you. Because mom is interested in erasing an embarassing result of her "indescretions" that resulted in....someone devalued by men but ultimately still bearing the image of God. Here, we as a people are so willing to be more concerned about the few "back-street" criminals, who are illegally taking lives, that we will legalize the sterile, "healthy" death of millions of those who cannot speak for themselves. Destroying those who are unable to organize a protest. Snuffing out those who has been labeled a "zygote", or "fetus", or whatever the label might be to dehumanize the inevitable result...a living person.

Because of the fact that there is a human life involved who is about to be destroyed for whatever reason, I'm willing for the government to require mom look at the individual forming and hear the beating heart before she makes the decision to snuff it out. IMO it is the loss of a small momentary liberty for one who is taking away the God-given lifetime liberty of another.

God help us in this national debate to maintain your grace while battling this evil. Lord, please forgive us because this is even remotely an undecided issue within the (invisable) church!

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Blessings,
Randy
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Well said, Randy! Jurists with no knowledge of God could say in 1973 that they did not know when life begins. That's no longer true. We now know beyond any question that life begins at conception, and we know that each newly created life at that moment is a distinct and unique human life fashioned by God in his own image.

Reported surgical abortions in the U.S. exceed 54 million in this generation of less than 40 years. If we add the number of children killed by pharmaceutical abortifacients, the total death toll from abortion may exceed 100 million (just in the U.S.). The reality is that we are living in the midst of a holocaust against which the Nazi holocaust pales in comparison. And like the church that stood silently by and allowed the holocaust of Nazi Germany, the church in the West has for the most part closed her eyes and ears and hearts to what is happening.

Even worse, the church has participated in it. According to some polls, 70% of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Christians (43% Protestant, 27% Catholic). Among them 18% identify themselves as born-again or evangelical Christians. Thousands of self-identified born-again or evangelical Christians are killing their own children through surgical abortion every week in the United States! Is this why we stand by doing nothing? Is this why we do not speak up for those who cannot speak? Is this why we do not plead the cause of the fatherless in such a way as to win it? Is this why we fail to rescue those who are being unjustly led to slaughter? Is it because we ourselves participate in the works of darkness that we do not obey God's commands to defend the defenseless?

As God's people, we are supposed to be like a city set on a hill -- a beacon of light in the darkness. Our good works are to be seen by all so that our heavenly Father will be glorified because of them. But what good are we doing in the face of this horrendous evil that has filled our land with innocent blood? What are we doing? Do we really think that God is unconcerned and will not judge our nation for this unspeakable wickedness?

May God help us to see clearly. May our hearts break for what breaks his heart. May we awaken from our slumber, cleanse our hearts and hands, and truly live like Jesus in this world.

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strider33 -- i wholeheartedly agree with your post but must quibble with 1 stmt:

men are indirectly effected as the loss of life impacts mankind -- men are also effected when male babies are aborted (aka killed)

Randy/Gideon -- very well said -- the # of deaths is STAGGERING -- am certain Hitler would be proud of this program's "effectiveness"

just 1 more reason a certain individual needs to take his lifetime Secret Service protection home to Chicago...

Not to make light of the issue - but the government does not and should not have the right to dictate this particular issue. The saving of one life does not mean that the liberty of another should be removed.

Abortion in an of itself is wrong and breaks my heart however we can not and should not be willing to allow the government any more power then they already have. Changing of hearts should be God's job, and we as Christian's should work toward educating and offering help to the women who seek abortions.

A woman who is seeking an abortion should be provided with all the facts, including the option of viewing the ultrasound, the government should not have the power to tell that woman you HAVE to do this or that in order to obtain an abortion. Y'all may feel differently but to me that is no different then requiring men that want to get a Rx for Viagra to submit to drug screening and a rectal exam.

This issue is NOT about getting an abortion it is about the government forcing someone to do something they do not want to do.

I may personally agree that every woman seeking an abortion should get an ultrasound and listen to the heartbeat before making that final decision, I may also think that after seeing and hearing there should be a waiting period before the procedure is carried out, I firmly believe that the government has NO RIGHT to dictate these things as mandatory....that should be up to the woman.

This is why I stress counseling before making this kind of decision. Like I said before Christians do need to step up their game and start actually talking one on one with these women, volunteer at a local counseling center, get involved in planned parenthood - make a difference on a local level and watch it spread.

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Jennifer Dent
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