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I saw a very interesting opinion piece in yesterday's Washington Post, that I wanted to discuss with you guys on this forum.

Quoting from this link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-values-debate-were-not-having/2011/11/02/gIQAaH3t9M_story.html?wpisrc=nl_opinions

As an evangelical Christian who believes the Republican Party does not have a monopoly on moral values, I believe this discussion is long overdue. The “compassionate conservatism” espoused by President George W. Bush and many prominent evangelical leaders has been supplanted by a Tea Party ideology that bears more resemblance to the anti-Christian philosophy of Ayn Rand than it does to the Gospel.

Whether the Christian duty to love our neighbors is compatible with a political movement that embraces radical individualism and rejects the ethic of collective responsibility is a central question as the GOP attempts to cement the Tea Party and the religious right into a cohesive base. Tea Party activists and Republican leaders have consistently targeted for cutbacks vital government programs that protect the poor, the elderly, children and other vulnerable Americans. Yet calls for shared sacrifice and proposals to modestly raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans in order to fund investments and protections that promote the common good are derided as “class warfare.” This is what passes for family values?

....This might be good politics, but it’s bad theology. Most “values voters” with even a minimal degree of biblical literacy recognize that the Hebrew prophets and Jesus warned the powerful not to afflict the poor and comfort the rich. These bedrock Judeo-Christian principles are flouted by conservatives who demand cuts to nutrition programs that help low-income women feed their children even as they defend tax loopholes for some of the world’s wealthiest ­people.

OK, let's discuss this, and don't forget to take the poll.

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Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine

Oh what a foretaste of glory divine!

I'm ed with the left and right. Here in WA, the liberal Dem governer is cutting programs for the poor and homeless while all kinds of construction projects proceed. Medicaid recipients were limited to three ambulance visits a year, though that was just recinded. I don't judge compassion by retoric.

What a great discussion topic! And yes, I realize that I haven't contributed... yet.

I will be watching for a bit.

Thank you, Landabee.

I'd like to hear from some GOP voters.

No, the answer isn't necessarily to vote Democrat - LOL! But some of you need to let your GOP members of Congress know what you do expect them to do, so that you can in good conscience support them and continue to vote for them.

What do GOP members of Congress need to do, to get closer to what Christ would have us do? A couple of you said that you aren't entirely happy - what needs to change in your opinion?

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Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine

Oh what a foretaste of glory divine!

this hasn't been a good option, generally speaking, for some time now

perhaps if you posed a few specific interest items...what values debate are we not having?

Hi Paco.

Read the Washington Post opinion piece I posted as the Original Post, and let us know what you think needs to change in the way the GOP approaches the most vulnerable among us. Some members of Congress would benefit from having their Christian constituents' feedback that the wealthy do not qualify as the ones who are "in need" among us (to give one example).

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Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine

Oh what a foretaste of glory divine!

I don't know why anyone would think that a system in which the top 10% of earners bear 70% of the tax burden while the almost 50% who earn the least bear none of it is one that "rejects the ethic of collective responsibility." And why would anyone think that forced redistribution of wealth in any way reflects the Christian duty to love our neighbors? Where does one get the notion that Christian collective responsibility has anything to do with forcibly extracting wealth from some for the benefit of others? God commands us who represent him to help those in need. He doesn't command us to compel others to do it for us.

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You don't have to tell us what you do agree with, Gideon. Just tell us if there is something that you disagree with, that you intend to tell your GOP Congressman about. You may not wish to tell them anything, but see if there is something. Did you read the OP link?

Do you see the tax cuts as "righting the wrong" of supposed re-distribution? If so, then maybe you are OK with what the GOP is doing. But I'm not, because I don't see the current taxation as re-distribution anymore. IMO the wealthy have received a "correction" to the tune of 30 points, so their rates are much more reasonable now. I think any more cuts for the wealthy, especially if they hurt the vulnerable, would be the wrong thing to do. Fiscally I am just as conservative as I ever was - I just don't want them raising my rates so that the wealthy can get more cuts. But I am not poor, and cutting aid to the poor to cut their taxes even more is just too Oliver Twist for me.

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Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine

Oh what a foretaste of glory divine!

Yes, Assured, I read Mr. Cizik's opinion and I just commented on it. Do you think I'm wrong?

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Again, this is false. The only tax that 47% of people don't pay is federal income tax. There are many, many other taxes that people pay. Describing these people as being exempt from taxes is a propaganda tool designed to make you resent them and side with the other guys on policy issues. THIS is class warfare against the poor.




Leviticus 19:9-10: "9 "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. 10 And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the LORD your God. "

Deuteronomy 24:19-21: "19 "When you reap your harvest in your field and forget a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it. It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. 20 When you beat your olive trees, you shall not go over them again. It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow. 21 When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, you shall not strip it afterward. It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow."

That is forced redistribution of wealth.

-Dan.

My Senator is Scott Brown. I'm pretty happy with the way he votes and the way he talks. I'm not going to try to move him to the left.

My congressman is, of course, a Democrat. I'm not going to waste my time trying to move him to the right.

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Not all those who wander are lost.

Do you believe the Democratic Party has a monopoly on moral values?

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Not all those who wander are lost.

Only if you believe that God uses force to obtain compliance.

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Not all those who wander are lost.

I am reminded of the Parable of the Shrewd Manager in Luke 16.

We have fallible humans in office and fallible voters. Both major parties have their strengths and faults. How much more positive work could be done with cooperation and collaboration than the scorched-earth politics we see most of the time.

I do find it ironic that so many Christians are enamoured by the Ayn Rand-inspired "Tea Party" philosophy.

BTW, the uber-wealthy possess the grestest wealth, so why not pay the greatest taxes?

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"I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State;
Ronald Reagan

"Again"? "Again" in reference to what? My statement was true, Dan. I did not say I was talking about the total tax burden, and although I didn't specify that I meant the personal income tax burden, as I have done in posts elsewhere, I thought that point was reasonably inferred from the context of this discussion which is in reference to Mr. Cizik's opinion piece. I assure you I'm not propagandizing, I don't resent those who pay no income taxes, and I'm not engaging in class warfare against the poor.

In the scriptures you quoted, God was commanding his people -- those in covenant relationship with him -- and that is consistent with what I said earlier. God commands us who represent him to help those in need. He doesn't command us to compel others to do it for us. If you, or anyone else, wants to argue that those who are wealthy should pay higher tax rates than they already do, that's fine. But please don't try to make it a gospel issue. If we Christians have a duty to love our neighbors, and we do, that duty is ours.

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Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!

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The Bible NETWork Doctrinal Statement
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