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Try not to chatter inanely. Most men are not the talkers that most women are, so it actually is helpful for you to do most of the talking to sort of keep things moving along. That really makes it easier for the guy. But avoid going on and on about trivial stuff that he probably has no interest in hearing. Some silence can be a good thing.

Avoid complaining and nagging. Men absolutely hate those behaviors. The same goes for gossiping and people-bashing. Some women are prone to speak ill of other women because it makes them feel better about themselves. Don't. It's petty and men see it as petty.

Make yourself pretty, but also practice modesty. You can be attractive without looking like you're trying to sell yourself. I can be more specific if you like.

If he tries to be gentlemanly by opening doors, seating you, etc., allow him to do so. You may have to slow down a bit and follow his lead, but the man should lead. By that I mean if he wants to open your door, learn to wait for him to do it. Likewise for other courtesies such as holding your chair and helping you with your coat. These little courtesies are ways of showing you honor, so if you find a man who willingly does them, you should encourage him.

Don't ask him to spend money on you and don't expect him to. Allow him to take the lead in this area. If he suggests doing something together, don't suggest an alternative that will be more costly (unless you're paying). If he seems to be going overboard and spending money that he can't afford or that seems unreasonable given the stage of your relationship, restrain him.

Smile. Most men struggle with feelings of insecurity in the beginnings of a relationship. Your smile can go a long way in allaying his qualms and encouraging him to pursue you.

Laugh at his stupid jokes (unless they are uncouth). Your laughter goes along with your smile.

Understand that whereas women have an innate desire to feel loved, men have an innate desire to feel respected and admired. Say and do things that will foster in him the feeling that you respect and admire him, but not insincerely. Never be insincere. By the same token, avoid saying and doing things that are likely to make him feel you do not respect and admire him. This is not to say that you should never correct him or call him to account. Just remember you can do those things respectfully and try to choose your words so that you won't later wish you could take them back. One thing you definitely want to avoid is making him look bad in front of others. That will destroy his trust in you and his willingness to be open with you.

A couple of thoughts about respect and admiration. They are of course not the same thing. Admiration for a man has more to do with his demonstrated qualities. Respect has more to do with his person. Many have the attitude that respect is something that must be earned. This is not true. God commands wives to respect their husbands just as he commands husbands to love their wives; i.e. unconditionally. Men do not have to earn their wives' respect any more than women have to earn their husbands' love. IMO, there is no good reason for a woman to continue dating a man she would not consider marrying, so if you choose to continue dating a man, you should also choose to respect him. If you don't, you probably won't be dating him for long anyway because he'll quickly decide you are not a woman he would consider marrying.

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Here's another thought that echoes some of Marv's advice to men. Don't be a woman on the hunt.

When men sense that a woman is overly anxious to be married, they tend to run the other way. I'm not saying you shouldn't want to find a husband any more than I would say a man should not want to find a wife. But it shouldn't consume you and shouldn't be in a hurry. A man wants to win a woman whom he thinks has high standards and is very selective, not someone who will settle for anyone. When a man marries a woman he wants to feel like he's won first prize, not a consolation prize.

So never chase a man; let him do the chasing. You can signal that you like him and that you're interested. You might even invite him to participate in some kind of group get-together once or twice. But that's it. He wants to be the pursuer, not the pursued, so don't chase. And while you shouldn't make it hard for him if you want to encourage his interest, you shouldn't make it overly easy either. Men are conquerors and a man likes to win a woman, which means there needs to be a certain amount of challenge involved. If you make it too easy, he's likely to look elsewhere. That may mean making yourself unavailable sometimes, not with a flat "No," but with "I'm sorry, I can't because...." But when he asks you again (for another time), say yes. It's kind of a dance, if you know what I mean. But once you've both established that you definitely like each other and want to move forward, then it's time to hire a new orchestra and start a different dance.

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I thought of something, when the man asks you something, like where you would like to eat, what you would like to do and so on. It's best to answer without first trying to think what does he want me to say, what would he like to eat, what would he like to do.

The problem is, if you get it right. You have a man convinced he found the perfect woman, sharing the same tastes and interests. And the big problem is when you get tired to that and want to do what you actually want to do. This often occurs after marriage.

I guess what I'm saying is if you pretend to be some other woman, you could end up with a guy who married that other woman. That's not something that tends to work very well.

If you are wrong in guessing, you might have him decide not to date you thinking you like those things. Again it just doesn't work.

So don't play the chameleon game of trying to say what you think he wants to hear. At some point that isn't going to work.

Gideon wrote:



Men aren't the only ones who want respect. Women want it as well. It is something that, traditionally, has been lacking in men's attitude toward and treatment of women -- and that, sadly, includes Christian men. If a man's love for me is NOT accompanied by respect, then I don't want that man or his shallow love because, quite frankly, any "love" that does NOT include respect isn't real or true. It may be lust. It may be a desire to have somebody around to make a man feel good. It may be a desire to exercise control over somebody masquerading as affection, but it isn't real love. If a man doesn't respect me and treat me with respect, then he can move on to someone else!

Gideon wrote:



I assume you're referring to Eph. 5:33. Do you think that God is saying that a woman must respect her husband even if he is a liar or an adulterer or an abuser? Maybe I should ask how you are defining respect and what you think it means for a wife to to respect her husband.

Lastly, men are given the same command -- to treat their wives with respect (1 Peter 3:7, NIV) so it obviously works both ways.

I never meant to suggest that men should not also respect women, though I think what the Bible calls for is a different kind of respect there. But this thread is offering advice to women dating men, so I was speaking to women. There's another thread offering advice to men dating women here. Perhaps the questions you raise deserve a thread of their own.

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Don't ask questions like Overcomer's on the first date.

One of the things I find most attractive in a woman is a sense of fairness and compassion. If those are your traits, don't hide them.

Oh, and skirts. Those are great.

If you ever get introduced to his relatives, decide that disliking them is not an option. (I got that one from my wife of nearly 35 years.)

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Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

Be kind. Most men want to be close to a woman who will be nice to them and the people around them

Look in his eyes - not staring, but catch his eye and if he does not seem uncomfortable - look at him as you speak with him - eye contact tells a man that you are talking to him!

Find common ground. He may like sports while you like wildflowers - or perhaps the reverse, but perhaps you will both like photography, music, cookies, or mountains.

Most importantly, men think in a 2 plus 2 = 4 manner. Some women add 1 to 2, subtract 1 and 1/2, and then multiply times 2, and finally add 1 and then arrive at four. Both are correct, but men usually take a direct route while women enjoy the scenery. Men need to be more patient and women need to be able to, at least sometimes, take a short cut.

John

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Pastor John C. Blackburn

I am glad you explained more fully what you meant ..... I think many problems could be avoided if we actually look more deeply into the Scripture, and not just accept verses that can be used as cliches.

Yes I agree that in marriage, we enter into a covenant, and then we are committed to love and respect each other, even when we may not feel like it at a given moment. (Though this never excuses abuse of any kind by either partner.)

But we are speaking of dating .... where a relationship is being built, and where respect and love do have to be to a large extent, earned.

On a lighter note ... I agree men want to be the pursuer .... in fact my husband began to pursue me when I told him I wasn't interested! .... he was determined to change my mind .... and so he did, and 45 years later, I am so glad.

God is good!

in Christ

Dinah

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Gideon writes


That respect should be earned in the dating period, prior to marriage.

One thing to consider in dating, ladies, is don't even consider dating a man you don't believe you will always be able to respect.

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Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

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"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Gal 5:6b

Pastor John C. Blackburn

I wrote

but I meant to say
One thing to consider in dating, ladies, is don't even consider continuing dating a man you don't believe you will always be able to respect.

It might take some time to make that determination.

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Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

Wear appropriate clothing, a woman can make life miserable for a man if she dresses innappropriately and tempts him by showing him too much. Personally I find it very difficult to get to know a woman (both as a friend and when I used to date) if she's dressed poorly. I don't feel that I can relax and just enjoy her friendship/companionship as a sister in Christ if I have to keep keep my eyes constantly averted to avoid short skirts, low tops etc.

Maybe I am just getting old, but much of this seems irrelevant to the majority of Christian ladies. Respect for others, modest dress, appropriate listening and speaking skills ... Come one guys, learning these things is part and parcel of becoming a mature Christian - for both men and women.

The not-so-young (i.e.25 plus!) single ladies I know do not need advice on how to dress, behave etc on a date. What they need is for the single Christian men to actually ask them out in the first place. Not to consider a more mature young woman as beyond the pale and only seek out the very younger ones, not be scared off if she has a brain and equally, not be scared off because she may actually be wanting to get married one day. Why date at all, if marriage is not a possibility? Isn't that one of the reasons we date at all? Maybe my definition of a "date" is perhaps too specific ... it comes with all the potential romantic overtones to my mind.

After marriage, then it may become relevant to speak of the need to go on "loving" and to "respecting" ... perhaps the first port of call if counseling is sought - but this thread is about dating! If love and respect are not both there on a two way street, surely none of us would recommend that a couple proceed to marriage.

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“Lord, in my zeal for love of truth, let me not forget the truth about love.” - Thomas Aquinas
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Aren't we all?


Ah, that does bring up something practical -- the guy doesn't have to do the asking! Men hate rejection, asking a woman out only to have her answer that she can't because she has to wash her hair or sort her sock drawer. It's ok for a woman to ask.

Of course, it would not be polite to ask and expect the guy to pay for everyone. He might be willing, but the expectation is not appropriate.

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Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

From my experience there are a lot of Christian women who ought to know better, but don't seem to. (Same goes for the guys.) But it sounds like what your friends need is not advice to women dating men, but advice on how to get a man to seek their attention ... to be interested enough to take the first step.

I think much of what I've already said would apply there. I remember when I was single and decisively not trying to date women I had initially considered because I heard them gossiping, complaining, speaking disrespectfully of people they should have respected, etc. And I found myself drawn to women who smiled at me, laughed, and were kind.

Besides those kinds of things, the way a woman looks is important to a man. I'm not talking about modesty here; I'm talking about being physically attractive. Now different men like different things, so there's no one look that a woman should aspire to. The important thing is to make the most of what God has given you. Men know that if a woman doesn't take care of herself before she's married, there's little hope that she will afterward. And single men don't want to become one of the many married men they see around them whose wives have just let themselves go. Other men feel sorry for those guys. So pay attention to your figure (consider bodybuilding) and wear clothes that are flattering to whatever shape you have. Find a hairstyle that's flattering to your face and keep your hair cut that way. And learn how to use makeup if you don't already know how (and many women over 25 don't).

The more a man is around you, the more likely he is to take an interest. If you can be involved with men in any kind of ministry where you're working together, that's a good way to rub shoulders (figuratively). Beyond that, you want to socialize in a way that's conducive to direct interaction. When I was in a larger church, it was common for a number of single women to round up a group for lunch at a restaurant after the Sunday morning meeting or for "dessert" after an evening meeting. It was a mixed group of course, and the organizing often began before the church meeting started. Once one guy was in, he would invite others, so it wasn't a case of the women doing all the inviting. Before long, there was a core group that met regularly that way, with others coming and going. Out of that group, a number of couples started dating and some eventually married. That's just one example of how you might create the kind of environment where men are likely to take enough interest to ask you out.

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