The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

I find that in the church how one views reality in a large part determines how one views mental illness. If, for example, a person believes in the hidden world of the spirit that person may well view mental illness as a spiritual matter instead of a physical issue to be dealt with using both prayer and medical interventions. In some of my recent doctoral work I have found some OT resources that define the soul as both the body and mind as one...I am satisfied with such a perspective.

I was a behavior specialist in a company that worked with developmentally disabled kids and adults for two years, and I can definitely understand how it can be frustrating when a person does not have the "devil" within him rebuked.

I worked with one kid(Codenamed "Legion") who had a number of various disorders. According to his med book he was autistic, schizophrenic, bi-polar, ADD, ADHD, dyslexic, profoundly mentally retarded(I disagree with this diagnosis, the kid was pretty astute despite his problems. More likely his IQ was rated low because he didn't participate in the IQ tests,) and after this lengthy list of diagnosis there was an underlined and bold "Other various undiagnosed psychotic disorders." What wasn't on the sheet was what staff had to deal with every day. He was homicidal almost all of the day, he would try to kill staff and other patients on numerous occasions during every shift including night shifts. the seven O'clock hour was especially brutal, you could almost set your watch to the fact that at seven O'clock he was going to have a massive behavior and attempt to kill somebody. He was especially prone to violence when sexually stimulated or jealous, which was highly unfortunate due to the next series of facts about this kid: he was homosexual, he had a foot fetish, and he was a transvestite. These meant that when he was one-on-one with male staff, he would become sexually aroused and attack them. When he was one-on-one with female staff, he would become jealous of their bodies(especially their hair) and attack them.

I began to suspect a spiritual attack on this kid when I noticed that he started talking to someone named "mommy" almost immediately before most violent episodes. When asked where "mommy" was, he would start to laugh maniacally and point to a corner of the room. My first day working one-on-one with this kid I got a good chunk of my right arm chewed off. After the attack, I was sitting down in his room while he was "detoxing" from the adrenaline and endorphines. This usually consisted of him writhing around on a bed, screaming, holding his head, and crying loudly. I began praying for the kid audibly and immediately I noticed a change in his demeanor. He crawled from his bed to the spot I was sitting. He began repeating the word "bitch" over and over again in a very deep and gravely tone, not his normal voice at all. I then began to start praying over him regularly. Every day I worked with him I would try to find a point to lay a hand on him and pray to have any spiritual attack repulsed from his body. It soon became clear though that Legion actually enjoyed the presence of "mommy" and had no desire for it to leave him. I don't know if it was an actual demonic haunting, but if it was I suspect that he welcomed "mommy" due to the fact that it never left him, unlike the staff that were always in and out. I have come to believe that the reason he called the presence "mommy" was because it was ALWAYS with him, and he associated that with motherhood(His real mother dumped him with us when he was six, and came down to see him once since then.)

For two years the behavior, the attacks, the "mommy" that haunted him continued. During Christmas break one year I worked fourteen consecutive sixteen hour shifts with this kid, possibly the most stressful two week period of my life. I have never felt so spiritually or mentally drained since I became a Christian. And that was the moment I could not work at that place any longer.

I don't know what to say about the friends and relatives that have mental illness. Only that prayer and petition is the best way to fight a spiritual attack, and medication and therapy are the best way to fight against a physical attack. Knowing the difference, or understanding that there is a combination and other underlying reasons for why a person might hold on to a demon, is the very difficult part.

_________________
the Thought Criminal... Thinking criminally for 22 years.

tc, thanks for sharing that story.

_________________
Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

I second that, Thought_Criminal. That story pretty much made my skin crawl.

_________________
Martin Luther, 475 years ago, was asked, "How do we love and serve God? How do we love and serve our neighbors?" and Luther answered, "In commune per vocatione." We love and serve God, we love and serve our neighbors, in community, through vocation. And let it be so with us.

Mental illness is a problem that is difficult to understand. I agree with you...these people need our prayers. Dementia in the elderly is also another heartbreaking illness. I am a nurse in a hospital. I have taken care of a lot of patients with mental problems. I remember taking care of an 80 yr old lady, Ms C (code name). Ms C would scream at anyone who entered her room and would shout "GET OUT!". She would try punching you, but she was so weak (from her arthritis) that she would not actually hurt anyone. Ms C would yell from her room and call out her relative's names. No one was actually in her room. I was in Ms C room trying to do an assessment. She would just yell at me with a angry look in her eyes, "GET OUT!". She finally stopped yelling and I tried talking to her, and she would not budge. Finally I asked her, "Do you want me to pray for you?"

She looked at me and said yes. I held her hand and prayed for her. After that her attitude had changed. She started to talk, the conversation did not make much sense because of her dementia. When I left the room, she continue to yell. But this time she would yell, "JESUS LOVES ME THIS I KNOW!….JESUS LOVES ME THIS I KNOW!…"

That's fantastic... Love to hear stories like that...

I've had three grandparents struck low by dementia... So I know that if I make it to old age that that is probably going to be what gets me... I'd like to hope that I can still grasp and understand salvation if it ever gets to that...

_________________
the Thought Criminal... Thinking criminally for 22 years.

I believe that it could be a connection. I was delivered victoriously February 5, 1992 from the clutches of two demonic spirits. The second Identified himself as "satan". I exhibited many traits common to mental illnesses like Schizaphrenia, bi-polarism, pyromania, kleptomania, manic depression, suicidal tendencies, Destructive personality disorder (to self and others) Obsessive compulsive Disorder, Attention Defict with Hyperactivity Disorder and addictive tendencies. To my parents I was what you would call a "challenging" child. Upon accepting my salvation through Jesus Christ and being delivered in this way. I was not only set free from my sins but rather all of my infirmities. I have not had to struggle with these tendencies anymore. I understand that there may be many skeptics. I am cautious of whom I share these revelations with becuase it would be like casting my pearls of salvation before swine in some cases. I am seeking to connect with those who have been delivered from demonic posession to support one another. I have looked for almost 17 years and so far I have not met another saved in this way. However, I do believe that there are other believers in Christ that were set free from demonic possession.
For those that question the possibility that a christian can be possessed; I will say NO. I knew about God just as the demons in the bible knew of Him however I did not have that personal relationship with him so therefore, I did not know Him. Christians are often oppressed by demonic spirits through temptaions and trials but possession can only occur when a soul is empty and void of Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit. For no man can serve two masters...
Growing up in Church and a Pastor's home was not enough to keep me from the battles I fought. Praise be to God that through it all, God remained close enough to me rescue me in my hour of need. God has given me a life worth living far greater than I could have ever imagined.

Born, thanks for sharing your testimony and praise God for your delivery.

_________________
Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

Thanks for sharing that testimony, bornbygraceofGod, especially in light of the fact that, as you say, there may be nay-sayers who find your story hard to believe. I expect that there are physical and medical reasons behind many of the mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, etc., but it's good to hear from people like you where the roots of the problem were spiritual. Certainly, the Bible gives us examples of people being delivered from demonic spirits in just such a way. We should not doubt that these things still happen today. Your story shows the importance of getting the right "diagnosis", be it spiritual or medical, in order to deal with these things appropriately.

BornbygraceofGod, I believe what you have said to be valid and truthful. How old were you when this happened? Any other details that you can share? Was there anyone else with you when you were saved?

_________________
Martin Luther, 475 years ago, was asked, "How do we love and serve God? How do we love and serve our neighbors?" and Luther answered, "In commune per vocatione." We love and serve God, we love and serve our neighbors, in community, through vocation. And let it be so with us.

I agree with who ever said medication. i have a close relation suffering with the same diagnosis. This person would same the same things. But is leading a productive life with medication.

Interesting thread--esp., Thought Criminals' post. I hope he's still around.
IMO, there is so much nonsense on this subject that it's very hard to talk about.
Often, psychological problems and/or theoretical "chemical imbalances" lead to spiritial problems. And Spiritial problems/demonic attack can lead to madness. This is to be distinguished from seeing all abnormal behavior as from the devil or, conversely, just a matter of brain chemistry....

PLEASE understand that Psychiatry is mostly a fraud--it is not scientific, never has been, and is more concerned with controlling people outside the norm. Most MD's have a very low opinion of the field but it's helpful to have a place to dump difficult patients. Most patients are not like L__ion, and are quite harmless. The typical patient will have a smorgasborg of contradictory diagnosis and be on enough brain killers to make anyone crazy. This is not atypical (Lgn) :

"According to his med book he was autistic, schizophrenic, bi-polar, ADD, ADHD, dyslexic, profoundly mentally retarded(I disagree with this diagnosis,...."

Btw, he is not joking. They actually say this stuff with a strait face
I am not bashing shrinks, I just happen to know this to be true --as do many other scientists.
I also believe that both cases described here could very well be demonic in whole or part (here most scientists would disagree LoL).
S

_________________
Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB

Greetings Brothers and Sisters -

I have a lot of training in psychiatry, was a psychiatric nurse at a major Seattle hospital for 12 years, worked with the (what's the politically correct word) mentally challenged for a few years, have an MA in psychology, and was trained to prescribe medications under the Advanced Registered Nurse Practitioner licensing of Washington State, and did prescribe medications for years.

In my opinion, and I emphasize my opinion, psychiatry as a medical practice is primitive. Honest psychiatrists will admit they have no idea why the medications they prescribe work. The diagnostic system is silly. I never prescribed medications by diagnosis like a medical doctor would, but by symptoms. Typically, one psychiatrist will give a patient one diagnosis while the next one will give him a different diagnosis. British doctors call bipolar disorder what our psychiatrists call psychotic disorder or schizophrenia. Often, the side effects of the medications are as bad as the “illness.” Those suffering from mental disorders as marginalized and stigmatized by the community. There is no reason for this other than they can act different.

I strongly caution anyone attempting to treat someone with a psychiatric disorder without competent and sympathetic advice of a psychiatrist. Unfortunately, finding a psychiatrist sympathetic to a spiritual view of mental illness could be very hard.

It is obviously to me that there are purely physical reasons for mental illness as illustrated by when someone has a head injury then develops mental illness. On the other hand there are probably combinations of physical and spiritual reasons, and then wholly spiritual. I believe in the wholly spiritual perspective because I can call on Jesus Christ to protect me from thoughts and feelings that seem to be bothering me for no reason.

I have no reason to doubt the casting out of demons by Jesus or the Apostles. This could still be done if it were not for the almost exclusively secular nature of psychiatry and medicine.

For those of you who are compelled to try this, there is usually a cycle to the severity of a mental illness. So during a lull in the symptoms, a spiritual intervention might be attempted. A licensed MD, a psychiatrist could be sued if he tried such a thing so you would probably be on your own, unless the MD was used as an authority on medical intervention.

Unfortunately, I view the current social environment as iatrogenic, not in a medical sense but as fertile ground for the development of psychiatric illness mostly for the reason of the continuing fragmentation of society, relationships, stress, people treated like machines and things, many psychiatrists actually perpetuating the situation, and the failure of religion to assert itself to its rightful place in society.

It's not an impossible situation, but it would take a monumental change in societal values to move to a more balanced perspective so that when a demon does cause a mental illness, the appropriate spiritual intervention can be taken.

Unfortunately, any person who starts talking about demonic possession to anyone outside of an immediate supportive network, will be labeled as a nut, and a religious lunatic.

Just my opinion.


God bless you all, Doug

_________________
Jer 31:15 Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not. (KJVR)

For some conditions that appear to be "mentally" related I strongly encourage allergy testing. My oldest son was diagnosed with ADD/ADHD more than a year ago and was prescribed Straterra.

However recently I had him tested for allergies, it turns out that he is highly sensitive/allergic to eggs, grains, B vitamins, vitamin C and a few other things as well. The testing and treatment are all done WITHOUT needles. These allergies can cause the exact same symptoms as ADD/ADHD....as well as depressions and numerous other issues...

The treatment is not ongoing, you get treating for a different allergy each visit, on your next visit you are tested to see if the allergy is still there...it is amazing that since he began treatment his ADD symptoms are diminishing. Eventually he will be off the meds completely!!!!

So again I strongly recommend anyone who has been diagnosed with a mental health issue to insist on allergy testing as well, he is still taking the straterra and will continue to do so until all the treatments are complete, then he will be weaned off them.

_________________
Jennifer Dent
Site Administrator

Forum Code of Conduct
The Bible NETWork Doctrinal Statement
The Net Bible Learning Environment
The Administrators Desk Blog

I have to admit that I find the demon/mental problem thing confusing. On the one hand the new testament often describes cases of demonic possession - for example Legion in Mark 5:1-20 seems to be describing what we would call mental illness now, and yet Jesus clearly identified and cast out demons from the man. So it seems that, as a Christian I have to accept that demons can cause mental illnesses (as well as physical ones, though mostly people seem to talk of mental illnesses).

On the other, I have a mental illness (bipolar) and I don't see what sin I have done that has caused it. Unless it was the sin of not being a Christian? It was during my first episode that I trusted in God, after all. It just doesn't seem fair if I have a demon and I am no worse, I think, than anyone else.

I'm stable at the moment, not working (lost all but one of the jobs I've had because of the illness) and seem to be doing well. Does that mean if I have a demon it can be controlled by medication? or just go away for a bit?

_________________
Striue for the trueth vnto death, and the Lord shall fight for thee.
(Sirach 4:28 KJV)