The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

GaryM.

Hope I'm not 'splitting hairs' with my question -- but when you said that believers would be caught up in heaven, were you associating 'being in heaven ' the same as Christ being in the air and 'getting' us? In other wards -- we won't be here on earth anymore and we'll be with Christ.
I'm asking because technically -- the believer won't be In heaven until at the very end when God brings the New Jerusalem down from heaven. It will be the New earth. Right?
I don't mean to be side-tracking the subject.

SueD you are not splitting hairs at all I meant caught up in the air. You are right on all counts SueD. Thank you for asking me to clarify my post.

GaryM. Thanks

Is the Rapture same as the Second Advent?

i believe they are distinct &, therefore, separate

The second advent of Christ is different from the rapture. In the rapture, Christ comes in the sky (clouds) and the trumpet is sounded and believers are caught up to be with Him. (1 Thess. 5:13-17). The second advent is when Christ returns to earth, after the tribulation, and reigns during the millennial kingdom thus fulfilling both the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants.

The first and second advents are spoken of in the OT but the rapture is a NT doctrine.

I think, although I'm not sure, that Advent Christians (distinct from Seventh Day Adventists) do not believe there will be a pre-trib rapture. Although William Miller seems to have been getting his followers ready for rescue by God.

I know my pastor doesn't think there will be a pre-trib rapture. So he's telling us to be ready for tribulation.

_________________
Not all those who wander are lost.

trying to "be holy because He is Holy" will occupy us all sufficiently enough & prepare us whether there's a pre-trib rapture or not

I have held to a pretribulation rapture but our senior pastor holds to a mid-tribulation rapture. What is interesting in the recent doctrinal statement from the Southern Baptist Convention in their book "Baptist Faith and Message," they say nothing about the rapture in their doctrinal statement on the end times.

Article 10 "God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise, Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will receive their reward and will dwell forever in Heaven with the Lord." p. 113.

Pre-trib. persons emphasize the imminent return
Mid-trib persons emphasize that the church goes through suffering and tribulation
However, their are godly people on both sides of this issue.

GaryM.

That's interesting -- we're in a strong South-Baptist area though we Aren't Southern Baptist -- location due to employment. Probably trying avoid arguments -- when He's ready to come He will come. And some passages Do seem to indicate that believers Will have to endure lots of persecution. And, I guess that being Here in the U.S. we Don't see much persecution / what there Is is in a more subtle form. In other countries there Is. It's simply not in national headlines.

We are Pre-Trib rapture people. But I'm beginning to understand the Mid-trib view a bit more. But Understanding something is Not accepting it.

Do see how some can get that view, from the ponts of when the 2 witnesses are taken back to heaven, some see them as being representing saints of the early tribulation period, and that the Church is raptured right before the Wrath of God pours out mid trip, when Antichrist assumes full reign!

Apponted NOT to suffer wrath of God, but still can the wrath of man!

i have a hard time equating 2 witnesses to thousands or millions -- #s tend to be rather literal -- the Text also appears to align with 2 local individuals -- many agree the Text illustrates these to be Moses & Elijah

other arguments can me made for a mid-trib rapture but i don't see how this particular 1 does

I'm not too concerned with the timing of the rapture. The early church went through some pretty severe persecution (crucifixion, stoning, beatings, imprisonment,...). Christians in many parts of the world today are experiencing persecution. I think that we as Christians need to be prepared to suffer persecution, regardless of what we believe about the timing of the rapture/tribulation period.

I only hope that when they come to arrest me for being a Christian, that there is enough evidence to convict me. And I hope that I am able to face persecution the way that Stephen did.

Oh, yeah, I believe in pre-trib rapture, but I still expect to face persecution. In fact, 20 years ago I predicted that the day would come that I would have to quit working as a scientist or I would be unable to get a job as a scientist because I am a Christian. I still expect that day to come in my lifetime.

Rudy, I can't answer for being left behind in the Rapture--that is between you and God. I can tell you this:
Matthew 19:17b "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments" (Jesus talking)
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command." (Jesus talking)

The Bible is God's word. If you love Jesus, then you will read it and obey it.

NONE will be 'left behind' who have been saved by the Grace of God!

IF you have had your name written down in the Book of life, reddemed by the grace of God in the Cross of Christ, regardless of how you have obeyed him you shall depart, but than you will face judgement on just how you lived your saved life here on earth as regards to good works, in order to have eternal rewards!

You can be as the one paul said make heaven, but as by the fire!