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Hi,

I need some help in seeing things from the right perspective and would really be grateful for your insights.

For the last year or so, I've had to deal with bullying at work by my boss and a co-worker. It's been a mix of subtle, excluding behaviour as well as withholding of information, withdrawing responsibilites etc. As a result of this behaviour, I decided to work 25 percent from august until the end of the year (did not say it was due to bullying). During this time, I spend time with mom who's got Alzheimer at an early age and I also started bible school. I was hoping time away would solve the situation, but yet a few incidents have taken place since August.

I decided to talk to the owner of the company as I've worked with him for a while. He's also the chairman. He in turn talked to my boss, who at the time was vice president, as well as he talked to the ceo who both resigned after that conversation (apparently because of other issues as well, I've been told). However two days later, they both regretted their resignation and said at the board meeting that they would come back if the chairman left the office the following week. So he did.

Since then I contacted the union to help me with this sticky situation. Lots have happened and a little more than 2 weeks ago we had our first meeting with the ceo and hr. It went well up until the ceo said he had full confidence in the two persons who have bullied me. So a few days later, I was leaning towards quitting work. About a week ago, the CEO decided to quit his position. Again. That means that my boss is now the CEO. A few days ago we had our second meeting, only this time with hr only, who said they did not want to fire me - they want to keep me on as I am valued, as I knew they would say. Hr also gave me the message that my boss wanted us to have an external therapist of some kind that would help me and my boss communicate better as he believes we have different styles of communication.

If only I believed he was genuine, I would accept and move on. But, I've had a few conversations with him about his leadership and it is always followed by continuing poor behaviour. And while I believe he does have a heart, he is extremely tight with the women who is incredibly manipulative and who has made many other women quit. She has him charmed and I have no faith in this situation getting any better when the two of them run the company. My trust for them has been broken and I have been severly affected by their actions.

Now, this is where I need help. I want them to fess up. I want them to take responsibility for their actions. I have written to my union rep and said I'm willing to accept improving our communication, but I also want a written apology from the two and that this is made known to my colleagues as well as chairman. I also require an external company to look into the psycosocial environment at work promptly and that the results are presented to all staff (350) and board. Now, if they write an apology, they confess to having commited an offense which is punishable by law. They would surely know this, which in turn means they can't really write an apology since they would worry I would press charges. My thought then is that we simply come to an agreement where I quit in january and they pay me 24 mos which is what is legally right after working 5-10 years in the same company.

A woman at church today asked me how things are going and I told her the above. She reacted negatively. She said I'm not playing it fair. We didn't have time to talk about it since the service started, but I had time to think. At first I was annoyed, but then I started thinking about it. I have an agenda with my requirements - I've given them (my union rep - she has not talked to my work yet) requirements I don't believe they will agree to which gives me an opening for negotiations. This is my dilemma. Now that I am understanding God better and my relationship with Him is changing, I want to do what God wants me to do. I'm just not sure how God wants me to deal with my situation.

I have been a xian for a long time, but I've been on the couch for years. Now I'm slowly getting off the couch and actually changing (and yes, it is cause I want to and not because I have to) and I don't want to make decisions that will kick me back a few steps with God. I want to act like a xian and I also want my actions in this case, be a possibilty for my bullies to understand that there is a God who loves them. But how do I do that while at the same time make them take some responsibility? Just by asking that question, I fear my faith is small. God is able to do anything. But that doesn't mean I should drop the whole thing and wait for a miracle.

Praying and reading the Bible is a given, but perhaps some of you have thoughts on this that I need to hear? I believe I needed to hear that I was not playing fair, I just don't know what I should do instead. I know my requirements are still with the union rep, but unless I hear anything from the rep, she will contact my company tomorrow. Somewhere in this situation I don't want my bullies to look at me as some cunning xian and that my name will be associated with unfairness. But what is unfair? I have been unfairly treated for more than a year. But I have to forgive somehow and that can be exemplified through my actions and I guess that's what I want to leave with them - that they know what I could do, but that I chose not to because I am a xian. They make think it's dumb and that they won, but I want their hearts to wake up. I want God to work in their lives and that God will use me somehow without me becoming a doormat.

Almost seems like I'm answeing my own question.

So what are your thoughts?

ps - of interest to know perhaps, I want to quit in january as I have the opportunity to continue bible school for one more semester. in kenya! another area in which I'm looking for guidance...

I assume by saying Xian you mean Christian.

Concerning the hostile work environment, the Bible tells us to bless our enemies by praying for them and not just praying but asking God to bless them. God is the truly just one - man's justice may be incomplete too much or too little but God's justice is perfect and true. Therefore, in prayer turn them over to God (those who you feel are your enemies) and leave it with God.

Concerning Bible college, going to Bible college is good but its not a silver bullet, i.e. a sure cure for the spiritual problems you are having. Yes, based on what you have written, you need to become active in some ministry in a local church.

lyds -- hello again

am not sure i have a good handle on your latest update -- still, i wanted to pass along some encouragement & my initial thoughts

i do not agree that you are being unfair -- you've seemed very easonable @ every turn -- it is perfectly acceptable to demand courtesy & a healthy work environment -- same with expecting an apology for poor behavior

i do not understand why your higher ups left -- plus, the problem bosses resign...change their minds...then get promoted?! -- very odd

Seeking God's Will in this situation & your life is always the best solution -- perhaps this is merely His Way of moving you to Kenya, dunno -- will only offer that it's quite a change in climate than what you're used to!

please keep us posted -- your resilience & desire to treat this situation as a witnessing opportunity motivates us all

hello Lyds from me too ...

Perhaps the comment was just meant to make you think - which it sounds as if it has done already (as you have realized).

The rule of thumb for Christian behavior is .... treat others as you would have them treat you if the situation was reversed.

If you decide to submit your requirements, then how you respond if they are refused is also important (and be prepared for them to be refused).

Sometimes the only solution is to walk away .... and with as much dignity and courtesy as possible.

Forgiveness is not easy - sometimes it can take a long time .... just acknowledge your need to God, acknowledge your failure, and also for grace and strength to keep trying. It is better to do this than offer an easy forgiveness which has not resolved the deep issues of hurt and betrayal in your heart.

Kenya sounds like fun .... enjoy it and grow from it.

Keep close to God by practicing the age-old disciplines of bible reading, bible study, prayer, meditation, silence and solitude etc. .... do them not as duties or chores but as means of growing in your relationship with God.

keep in touch

your sister in Christ

Dinah

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Matthew 5:38-48 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, do not resist the evildoer. But whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well. 40 And if someone wants to sue you and to take your tunic, give him your coat also. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not reject the one who wants to borrow from you. 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be like your Father in heaven, since he causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don’t they? 47 And if you only greet your brothers, what more do you do? Even the Gentiles do the same, don’t they? 48 So then, be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Context (NET)

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My initial thought is keep your focus on Christ. Don't get sucked into playing on a worldly level. Do your best to honor God in the workplace, pray for your enemies, and be sensitive to opportunities God may bring your way.

My husband is a Christian with a chess like brain. He would prefer to be fired rather than quit so he could get six months unemployment.

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Thanks for responding.

It's a difficult situation and I find myself going back and forth between anger/sadness and a desire to love them. It seems that every time I'm thinking of giving them a second chance and perhaps stick around, I'm being told of scheeming behaviour by my colleague who's also in a similar situation with the same two.

I have started praying for them, but probably not enough. I'm also praying for myself - that I will forgive them but at the same time, make sure there are some consequences for their unprofessionalism. I'm not the first to be treated this way, but I am the first to stand up (thanks to God) and while it's draining, I really do believe it's necessary for all involved.

As for the resigning, changing of minds, quitting agan and then promotion - it's all a game and it's all about power. it's scheeming at a high level and the next scheeme likely to take place is that the woman who started the bullying, will be offered the chief marketing officer position and become my boss. Not strange from a scheeming perspective since that would make me resign (at no cost for them), but strange since she doesn't work with marketing. It would be more natural for me or my colleague to apply for that position, but I doubt there will be an official recruitment process.

Any which way... It's really difficult not to get entangled in feelings and considering the amount of energy this is taking, it may be better to move on eventually. Perhaps it will be to Kenya. Not sure yet. Waiting for this situation to be over and then we shall see. It's only for 4 months and while it's somewhat scary, it could be good. If I don't go, I am pleased to let you know that I do go to a church that I really enjoy. Starting to get Christian friends, getting involved in activities with homeless and on top of that I go to bible school 5 times a week. And, really another thread, but I think I may be starting to change - it seems as if my faith is trickling down from my brain to my heart. I think I'm starting to get it. Yay!

Paco and Dinah - hope you guys are well. Looking forward to reading your posts and hearing from you again.

so good to hear from you Lyds

growing as a Christian is just that - growing! .... how often Jesus used pictures of plants growing .... and that takes time - and yes intentional effort - but time! .... it is never an instant process.

so keep going

and re work .... do not allow yourself to get sucked into the turmoil, set a limit on how long you are prepared to stay (and don't make it too long) - then walk away, you have done your best - and if God means to do something about what is happening, then He will make that clear, but if not then you have to walk away.

I found this out the hard way .... staying in a job way beyond where I should have left it, it has taken me years to recover.

in Christ

Dinah

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lyds -- thanks for the update -- you certainly possess more patience than i would in the same situation -- things appear to be deteriorating there but you remain the eye of the hurricane (i.e., a refuge for others to escape the madness)

keep yourself strong spiritually, emotionally, & physically -- eat right, exercise, & get plenty of rest -- this'll keep your body fresh -- that way it won't distract your spiritual side from the battle

perhaps God will Remove you from this unhealthy situation -- if so, know that you did all you could & planted a good seed in others -- they'll need to water it as they reflect on how you handled everything & emulate your witness

i perked up upon hearing you'd found a church & were making friends -- this is great news! -- your sharing that has made me feel better about my tiring, though less dramatic day -- thanks

Hey,

For some reason, the text is really tiny in the forum section but not on the main bible.org site. Maybe just my computer.

Thanks for encouraging me with your posts. I think about it every now and again, that whenever I write on this site life seems like I make decisions which are more God-like.

Dinah, I'm sorry to hear that you've been through something similar... You may not want to relive it by writing about it, but if you do then all ears. And Paco - hope you're day turned out less tiring.

Have an awesome weekend!

Lyds, I'm not sure if it will work in your browser, but try simultaneously pressing Ctrl and the "+" key. In my browser, that enlarges the text. To make the text smaller, simultaneously press Ctrl and the "-" key.

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Thanks Gideon! It was just my computer - my cat sat on it (of course) and accidentally changed the font size. Like that pic of you, by the way - it's great and very 70ish.

...Christian with an agenda, that's what's on my agenda. Man! being in this situation at work has proven to be really tough while at the same time a great learning experience. I seriously don't believe I would've had the energy to deal with this if it wasn't for the fact that I started Bible School a few months ago. I have had many praying for me and in the midst of it all, I've been able to feel joy in the fact that I am growing in Christ. It's really awesome that I am growing! Will come back to that - growing - but I just wanted to share with you my reaction to my boss today and other thoughts that spin around in my head.

My two requirements I posted about earlier - the apology and an external company looking into our work environment - has only today been emailed to my boss. My rep has been busy and my boss came back to work yesterday after having been on a holiday in Thailand for a couple of weeks. We did have a meeting with HR two days before my boss went on holiday and HR said my boss wanted us to go to some sort of counselling in order for us to understand our different styles of communication. Good initiative, but that's not really what this is all about, as my boss is aware of. I've accepted that initiative though, in combination with my two requirements. What bothers me, I think, is my compassion for my boss and my non-compassion for the other one. I don't know what my boss feels, but I apply conscience to him and become sad when I picture him saddened by all of this. But in reality, I don't know how he feels. For the last year, he has shown nothing but poor management, even after conversations about it. Why do I apply a conscience to him? Is it 'cause the Holy Spirit talks to me, or is it just my ability to create a persona out of what I expect/want for him to be?

I am not sure what to make of my own reactions, but my quick analysis is that I have forgiven him - the boss - but not her. And I need to forgive her as well. I am growing in my understanding of Christ and I understand that I need to forgive her as Jesus has forgiven me. But this is where I spin a bit. In my humaness I think that it's perfectly logical that Jesus can forgive me for my sins, since He is Jesus. But for me to forgive her is much harder since I am me and that it will take time.

Ok - spinwarning. I am human, but created by God. My heart is my heart, but in the process of becoming more God-like. How does my heart become more like God while at the same time remaining me? Me as I know. The more God-like I become, the less me-like I should become. Shouldn't I? Me, as I know myself, not the version God intended for me as I soiled myself (not putting too much value in that word at this point). If I am in the process of becoming the person God intended for me, I really should change and this change makes me think, perhaps worry, that the Lydia I know today is turning into someone different - someone who pleases God rather than herself. I understand that this process takes a long time. It has taken me years and years to even get to this point (so it seems I am rather slow...). But all these questions make me wonder - who am I if am slowly changing to become more Christ-like (I am not having a crisis, just so you know)? Previously then (and yes, still today - loads) my interests, passions and gifts have been used for my selfish needs and not to glorify God and if I am to understand my slooowly changing process, it's like I'm going through a bleaching process - from soiled to less soiled? These questions probably seem a bit schizofrenic, but I'm hoping that you understand something of what I am trying to figure out.

All in all - I am tremendously greatful to God. Going to Bible School has really started a process in me. I am aware of the fact that I am aware of Jesus so much more than ever before. I talk to Him much more and I long for each Sunday and I miss school over the weekend. I am still pretty poor at having a good structure of Bible-reading on my own, but the difference is that I am aware of it and I make conscious efforts in slowly changing my ways. I have learned to pray out loud with other students and I desire prayer more than before. I also become aware of my short-comings much quicker and while I struggle with the same things, I'm just more aware. And today, seemingly simple things become clear - I understand that I haven't understood. And I'm talking about simple things that for other Christians are obvious. ...It feels like I have a better understanding of what it means to be a Christian, even if I'm just on the cusp. I pray that I always will be on the right side of the cusp and that I will grow daily with God and also come to the point where I genuinely can forgive, not just my boss but also the other person at work.

Now I'm rambling and it's past midnight. I should go to be in order to be alert during class in the morning. Good night and God bless.

Matthew 18:21-35 21 Then Peter came to him and said, “Lord, how many times must I forgive my brother who sins against me? As many as seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him, “Not seven times, I tell you, but seventy-seven times! 23 “For this reason, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his slaves. 24 As he began settling his accounts, a man who owed ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25 Because he was not able to repay it, the lord ordered him to be sold, along with his wife, children, and whatever he possessed, and repayment to be made. 26 Then the slave threw himself to the ground before him, saying, ‘Be patient with me, and I will repay you everything.’ 27 The lord had compassion on that slave and released him, and forgave him the debt. 28 After he went out, that same slave found one of his fellow slaves who owed him one hundred silver coins. So he grabbed him by the throat and started to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ 29 Then his fellow slave threw himself down and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will repay you.’ 30 But he refused. Instead, he went out and threw him in prison until he repaid the debt. 31 When his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were very upset and went and told their lord everything that had taken place. 32 Then his lord called the first slave and said to him, ‘Evil slave! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me! 33 Should you not have shown mercy to your fellow slave, just as I showed it to you?’ 34 And in anger his lord turned him over to the prison guards to torture him until he repaid all he owed. 35 So also my heavenly Father will do to you, if each of you does not forgive your brother from your heart.” Context (NET)

Lyds, the Lord does not command us to do things we cannot by his grace do. And he certainly would not withhold his own forgiveness for failing to do something that we cannot with his help do. Perhaps your difficulty is in realizing how utterly dependent we are upon God's enabling power to do the things that please him. It is as the apostle Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20 ESV)

We need to come to grips with the reality of Christ in us if we are ever to become Christ-like.

Romans 7:18-25; 8:1-4 18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I want to do the good, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but I do the very evil I do not want! 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer me doing it but sin that lives in me. 21 So, I find the law that when I want to do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God in my inner being. 23 But I see a different law in my members waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. 1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Context (NET)

But I wonder, if you have forgiven your boss, why then do you demand an apology from him?

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Thanks for the reply, Gordon. I had to think for a while which is why the answer is delayed. Perhaps your question is of neutral character, but I interpreted it as my asking for an apology is an inclination that I have not forgiven my boss. Any which way, it's good to ask because it gives me a reason to look into my heart.

Coming to grips with what it actually means to forgive someone is a new process. Not to forgive per se, more so HOW to look at forgiveness. I am of course disappointed that my boss has been a poor leader for nearly a year - I've been tremendously affected by the whole situation since I've been one of the targets. Yet somehow I care for him and pray that he will deal with the consequences with an open and understanding heart instead of being hard-hearted. Regardless of whether he will apologize or not, I still care for him and want him no ill.

I don't equate forgiveness with removing responsibility, and that's why I want an apology. I work in a known private company and we are approx 350 employees and do pretty well financially. I am not the only one who has been bullied, but I am the only one to stand up. I am the whistleblower and I do believe that it's important for a leader to take responsibility and admit to wrongdoings. It's part of being a good leader and I believe it will make my boss act differently in the future, which is of great importance for the other ones who are left and who fear losing their jobs and are too afraid to speak their mind. It's also important for him. He is just over 30 and just became the CEO and has his whole career ahead of him.

I know he may not apologize and I can't force him to, but I would like for him to realize the gravity of workplace bullying. Hopefully he does realize this, regardless of his choice. I almost feel like a parent - I care for him and I ache for him but I need to reprimand his behaviour, not just for me but for the rest of the gang. This is why I believe I have forgiven him - because I still care for him. I feel very different towards the other bully - for her I feel nothing really and need to learn how to forgive her. Reason for the different reaction? She is the root and has shown nothing but callus manipulation for years whereas my boss has shown he does have a heart. I just believe he has allowed himself to be manipulated by her.

One thing is sure - I need to pray to be right with God and to forgive the female colleague as well as make sure that what I feel towards my boss is actual forgiveness. I do find it extremely comforting that Jesus does not withold his own forgiveness for my failing. I am sure I have a difficulty in realizing how utterly dependent I am on God's enabling power to do what pleases him - I'm just coming to love the Lord and there are so many things I need to learn.

Thanks for question and have a great Sunday!

Thank you for your reply, Lyds. Assuming that you have forgiven your boss, as you've said, I question whether or not it's appropriate for you to either reprimand your boss or demand an apology from him, even if you think you're doing so with altruistic motives. I can certainly understand a parent reprimanding and demanding an apology from his/her child. After all, a parent has authority over the child and has the responsibility for molding the child's character and training him how to behave properly. One might even reprimand or demand an apology from a peer. But is it appropriate for a Christian to reprimand or demand an apology from someone who is in authority over him or her? Should a child reprimand or demand an apology from the parent? Should a student reprimand or demand an apology from the teacher? We have a protocol for dealing with brothers and sisters in Christ who have sinned against us, thereby breaching our fellowship with one another, but in the church we all have one Master. The employment relationship is different, being essentially a master-servant relationship. Aspects of common law and employment law are even predicated on the fact that the relationship between employer and employee is one of master and servant. In view of that, it seems to me that the scriptures which address how slaves should relate to their masters are generally applicable to how an employee should relate to his or her employer.

Ephesians 6:5-8 5 Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart as to Christ, 6 not like those who do their work only when someone is watching – as people-pleasers – but as slaves of Christ doing the will of God from the heart. 7 Obey with enthusiasm, as though serving the Lord and not people, 8 because you know that each person, whether slave or free, if he does something good, this will be rewarded by the Lord. Context (NET)

Colossians 3:22-25 22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in every respect, not only when they are watching – like those who are strictly people-pleasers – but with a sincere heart, fearing the Lord. 23 Whatever you are doing, work at it with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not for people, 24 because you know that you will receive your inheritance from the Lord as the reward. Serve the Lord Christ. 25 For the one who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there are no exceptions. Context (NET)

1 Timothy 6:1-2 1 Those who are under the yoke as slaves must regard their own masters as deserving of full respect. This will prevent the name of God and Christian teaching from being discredited. 2 But those who have believing masters must not show them less respect because they are brothers. Instead they are to serve all the more, because those who benefit from their service are believers and dearly loved.Teach them and exhort them about these things. Context (NET)

Titus 2:9-10 9 Slaves are to be subject to their own masters in everything, to do what is wanted and not talk back, 10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith, in order to bring credit to the teaching of God our Savior in everything. Context (NET)

1 Peter 2:18-23 18 Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are perverse. 19 For this finds God’s favor, if because of conscience toward God someone endures hardships in suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is it if you sin and are mistreated and endure it? But if you do good and suffer and so endure, this finds favor with God. 21 For to this you were called, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving an example for you to follow in his steps. 22 He committed no sin nor was deceit found in his mouth. 23 When he was maligned, he did not answer back; when he suffered, he threatened no retaliation, but committed himself to God who judges justly. Context (NET)

This is very commendable, Lyds. Good for you!

I'm afraid you've misread me, Lyds. I said the Lord would not withhold his own forgiveness for our failing to do something that we cannot with his help do. But right before that, in reference to Matthew 18:21-35, I said the Lord does not command us to do things we cannot by his grace do. In other words, the fact that he commands us to forgive others is evidence that we can do that with his help. But as Jesus plainly said in verse 35, God will not forgive us if we do not forgive others. Again, in Matthew 6:14-15, Jesus said: “For if you forgive others their sins, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, your Father will not forgive you your sins."

You will learn that you simply cannot please the Lord in your own strength. The beautiful truth is that Christ now lives in you through his Spirit and he will enable you as you rely on him in faith.

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