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Hi everyone!

So my best friend and I are both Christians. And just as there are MANY different Christian denominations and varying beliefs, there are specific beliefs that we do not agree on. Both of us are strongly convicted to most of what it means to be a Christian, however there is one specific belief that has been weighing on my heart for months . . . So i'd like to get someone else's advice/viewpoint.

Our Background:
• I've grew in my faith describing myself as simply a Christian [instead of; Baptist or Methodist or Non-
Denominational, etc.] However, if i had to choose the one that most closely resembles my beliefs . . . I would be
Non-Denominational [even though i am now attending a Baptist church].
• My friend doesn't quite know what she is, but if I had to "classify" her by her belief-set, I would describe her as
Pentecostal or Charismatic.

The Problem:
She has been searching for a home church for months, and has just recently found one that she has referred to as "my church". Both of which are connected to the Assemblies of God. The first one, i visited a few times with her for support. Both focus almost specifically on the phenomena of "Speaking in Tongues". . . [sorry, i know this has been brought up 100s of times on these forums].

The subject of tongues has been a difficult one for me for years. Through everything and every-time i've studied, I cannot find anything that convinces me that the Tongues used in these churches today, is the same Tongues used and mentioned in Acts and 1Corinthians. My friend believes truly in this and finds it almost necessary in order to have a true relationship with God . . . I've tried VERY HARD to open my heart to the possibility that she is correct. But when i've witnessed people today speaking in Tongues, this weight falls over me, and I feel that it's God warning me to tread carefully.

Why is this subject so difficult for me? . . . Because if these people want so much to be communicating with God in this way [and it isn't true] . . . then I see it as very dangerous. I can't help but think of 2Corinthians 11:14 . . . Satan appearing as "an angel of light". If someone is unable to interpret what they are saying . . . there is always a possibility that Satan could use that to his advantage . . .

1 Cor. 14:26-28 is where many charasmatic churches fail imo

All churches have their failings.

If the church is trying to be a good follower of Jesus Christ, is following the greatest commandment and the one like it, then what more do you want if that is where your friend feels at home and can be a disciple?
The practice of their faith and the fruits that result should hold as least as much weight (more in my opinion) in your assessment as the stated beliefs.

Satan uses unloving doctrinally sound churches to his advantage.

_________________
John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

Thank you Paco and John Chaplin!

I want to make it clear that I do not completely deny the possibility that God can cause someone to speak in whatever tongue He sees fit. [He is God, and I will not attempt to constrain Him]
I'm just having trouble justifying the idea that the Tongues I've witness myself, and that that I read from the Bible are the same. *Also I want to be clear in saying that, I don't see these people as horrible or more sinful than i . . . that would be ridiculous.

I'm not trying to pull apart my friend from a church in that she feels comfortable and welcome. I've not even tried to convince her one way or the other. Over all i want her to be happy and strengthened by God.

My concerns come simply for her spiritual safety. I want to be able to encourage and support her going to church and becoming closer to God. and I earnestly try. But the weight of this subject . . . i'm not sure why . . .

I want so badly to understand this,
Thanks for your time.

Hi, TreasuredDaughter.

It is a good attitude to be concerned for your friend's spiritual safety. It would be a good thing for you to pray and meditate about your concerns. Sometimes we project concerns for ourselves onto others. This is something it took me quite a while to recognise in myself. Your worries may be real or imagined and you need to think carefully to discern that.

I am with you in that I cannot say that I am convinced that any tongues I have seen are genuine or as I read them in the Bible. They seem to have given some of my friends encouragement anyway, and though we could not worship together in this way (I would feel like an observer rather than a participator) it does not prevent me from having fellowship with charismatic people. I only have difficulties when I told my own spiritual journey is wrong, but that can come from people from all walks of Christianity.

So, Does this church see her as a Christian joining them, or as a person who is only now coming to a true faith? Are they helping her grow, or are they telling her what she must believe and trying to control her? Do you feel that they are trying to break your friendship? How would she feel about these questions? Could you discuss them with her?

Don't take a stranger's advice. (From Adam Carroll's Stranger's Advice)

_________________
John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

This is what is called an "oxymoron":

If you are unloving, you can't be doctrinally sound!

But this is a sound observation:

Christ made us clean (central teaching), but we wash each other's feet (doctrinal harmonisation), as we check how different aspects of our lives align with the Gospel.

_________________
Sam

All Scripture references from the NASB unless otherwise indicated.

I am glad you caught that. I was paralleling a phrase of TreasuredDaughter 'Satan appearing as "an angel of light". If someone is unable to interpret what they are saying . . . there is always a possibility that Satan could use that to his advantage . . .' I agree with you, Footwasher, but rather than being completely logical here, I was alluding to the churches that have focused on and claimed to be doctrinally sound, intimating in a quite unchristian unloving way, that others are not. Perhaps I should have put an ironic smiley in my phrase. It does seem that some are quite blind to their lack of love while excommunicating those they see as doctrinally unsound. I know a whole church that was treated that way by its church hierarchy.
There is a common failure to be satisfied with intellectual assent to a statement of faith, regardless of whether practice conforms to it.

_________________
John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

need to crash but wanted to toss this into the mix: Rev. 2:1-7

This is appealing symbolism. I gather that it must be one of your favourites.

_________________
John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

Treasured daughter

We have moderators and posters from both Charismatic and non-Charismatic churches here ...

Personally, I struggle with tongues ... and I find it impossible to worship when everyone starts "speaking" at the same time - it just sounds like bedlam to me (no offense to my charismatic brothers and sisters) .... yet I don't doubt that many of them are my brothers and sisters in Christ.

So I meet with my charismatic friends in situations where they don't use their gift, or if they do, they do so silently or at least quietly .... we have agreed to differ.

This is one of those things in which Christians can differ, as long as they continue to love and support each other.

But you are certainly not alone, and this forum is a good place to ask your questions.

in Christ

Dinah

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Being one of the charismatic moderators here, I can't say that I find it impossible to worship when everyone starts speaking in tongues at the same time, but I do find it distracting because I know tongues should not be practiced in that manner per Paul's instructions in 1 Corinthians 14. And perhaps, TreasuredDaughter, that is the reason you find what you have heard to be so disconcerting. The gift of tongues practiced in an unscriptural manner fails to build up all who are present, as tongues and interpretation of tongues should do when those gifts are exercised in a biblically appropriate manner in the church assembly. When you hear the whole church speaking in tongues at once, you are hearing that spiritual gift being misused (as it was in the church at Corinth) and I'm therefore not surprised that you find it troubling.

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Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!

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dcljoy,
thanks for the input. I do agree that this isn't what one would call a "salvation issue".


Gideon,
I'm afraid you've hit the preverbal nail on the head.

I'm still not convinced i've seen tongues that are truly biblical, but I might see things differently if the speakers i've see had followed the criteria the bible has set.

I'm not a charismatic. I don't believe speaking in an unknown language is a true spiritual gift. But I do believe God can and does work signs and wonders at times today, which can include tongues (as in Acts 2).

My previous pastor was not charismatic, but on a mission trip in the Philippines, he witnessed a brother speak about Jesus to a Korean in the Korean language without having learned the language. Paul said tongues were for a sign to unbelievers (1 Corinthians 14:22), and I would expect things like this to happen sometimes in a places where Jesus is unknown.

_________________
Andrew Bernhardt
"Salvation costs me nothing. Discipleship costs me everything."
my homepage / my blog

This is what I believe true biblical "tongues" is. Supernatural ability to speak in a language you do not know, but a real language not something made up on the spot.

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All scripture KJV unless otherwise stated.

There are godly people on both sides of the tongues movement. I have a friend who prays in tongues yet we have had good fellowship. It is my opinion that the body of Christ does not celebrate diversity enough; we should embrace difference. We need to realize that there are battles out there where we can stand together and need to stand together. Are you familiar with the ECT movement? ECT stands for Evangelicals and Catholics Together; this movement was started by Christians standing against abortion and realizing that, despite their doctrinal difference, they were united against abortion. There are spiritual battles that we can unify against. We need to build up others and then reach out - the body of Christ needs an outward focus and to love others.