The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

[As paul stated, the water Baptism symbolizes in visible fashionthe inward work of the Holy Spirit...

We have been saved by God thru Jesus, seal and filled with His Spirit, and the rite of baptism is an external sign to testify to that, we are making a public declaration for Christ!

that public identification was used as the means to have a person submit to a local assembly/church body...

Thanks. Which specific scripture says this? "As paul stated, the water Baptism symbolizes in visible fashionthe inward work of the Holy Spirit..."

And the nowhere is the scripture for this" the rite of baptism is an external sign to testify to that, we are making a public declaration for Christ!

that public identification was used as the means to have a person submit to a local assembly/church body...and scripture for this?

_________________
How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

The early Church ONLY administered the 2 ordiances of water baptism and Lord Supper, and both were done by/to already professing Chrsitians!

the Baptism was done to have a public declaration of faith in yeshua...

You keep repeating public declaration in various wording. I understand that you think that water baptism is an outward sign.

I want to know if there is any scripture to say this. Please quote a scriptural reference that changes water baptism to an outward sign/public declaration.

you will not find a verse that says, "immerse the new Christian in water as this is baptism & thus an outward sign to all..." -- but so what? -- the Scriptural examples portray this -- that's enough for me but apparently not for you -- that's fine

are there verses that claim it is not an "outward sign"?

to me, Christians can take the role of baptism off the reservation like Israel took circumcision -- both were Commanded by God, yet neither Saved

chapter 6 Roamns addresses why we are water baptized into jesus, for thru His death and resurrection us going down in the water and rising up symbolizes what he did for us!

Paco wrote:[quote[are there verses that claim it is not an "outward sign"?[/quote]
Why do you turn the burden of proof to Theophilus who are asking for scriptural reference instead to the one who first pronounced “that changes water baptism to an outward sign/public declaration”.
Yahweh wrote:
Perhaps you mean Romans 6:3-5 if, I am correct you study its context and you will not find there even a drop of water. I admit that said verses is relevant for regeneration and sanctification of a believer,through the glory of the Father which raised Christ from dead, but not for water baptism.

_________________
How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

am not in a debate -- i asked a reasonable Q -- so did he -- as i stated, i do not think a verse proclaims an answer -- i infer from the examples that it is what i said it was -- others are free to disagree

i agree -- however, i see why some use this Text but water may not be implied here -- if i had to pick a side, i'd say water is not implied

Paco,
Thanks for clarification.

_________________
How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

Colossians 2:12
having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

1 Peter 3:21
Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you— not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


Both passages appear to link together the concept that to the early church, per the Apsotles, water baptism was theexternal evidence pointing towards what god in christ had alreadu done in saving them from their sins!

Actually, neither of these passages suggest it is only an outward sign of some previous inward thing. They both tie baptism in as if it actually matters...as if it is actually a being buried with Christ...as if it is actually "now saves". I am by no means here arguing for baptismal regeneration, but the Scriptures simply do not bear out that it is only "an outward sign". It is actually a demonstration of faith and obedience...the very act of being united to Christ. Let us not make it less than the writer's of Scripture made it, without giving it all the baggage of the later Church dogma and disputes (even as we take such into consideration).

_________________
Everyone is equal at the foot of the cross...just some are more equal than others.
Forum Code of Conduct
Bible.org Doctrinal Statement
rickwadholmjr.wordpress.com
iheartbarth.wordpress.com
bluechippastor.org
Twitter: @RickWadholmJr

Yahwek. Seeing your love to the word of God, and by godly love and compassion with your diligence, I would like to share with you the God given understanding to me with our subject, Romans 6:3-5 baptism into death is baptism of Spirit, not of water but a collation to his death and resurrection through the glory of the Father.
We are being wash or cleanse by the “word” of God (John 15:3) which the blood of Jesus ( Heb 12:24) spoke before he gave up the ghost.(Mark 15:37) which is the word of reconciliation that was preached by the apostles in 2 Corinthians 5:19-20

_________________
How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

water baptism is the symbol of what the Lord did inwardly to us when he redeemed and saved us, as that signifies and testifies to others that we have been already saved by God, and Baptism is a public declaration of that fact!

_________________
Blessings,
Randy
Forum Code of Conduct
The Bible NETWork Doctrinal Statement
The Net Bible Online