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My vicar just came back from Israel. When he visited the wailing wall a jew came up to him and asked him what religion he was. He answered, then the jew asked "Do you believe that God is in the heart of Satan?"
"No" came the reply.
The jew then said, "That's the difference between christianity and Judaism. Read Psalm 139. Have a nice day." then walked away.
Do you agree with the christian or the Jew?

Pil

So y'all don't have to look it up before you answer here it is:

Psalm 139 1 For the music director, a psalm of David. O Lord, you examine me and know. 2 You know when I sit down and when I get up; even from far away you understand my motives. 3 You carefully observe me when I travel or when I lie down to rest; you are aware of everything I do. 4 Certainly my tongue does not frame a word without you, O Lord, being thoroughly aware of it. 5 You squeeze me in from behind and in front; you place your hand on me. 6 Your knowledge is beyond my comprehension; it is so far beyond me, I am unable to fathom it. 7 Where can I go to escape your spirit? Where can I flee to escape your presence? 8 If I were to ascend to heaven, you would be there. If I were to sprawl out in Sheol, there you would be. 9 If I were to fly away on the wings of the dawn, and settle down on the other side of the sea, 10 even there your hand would guide me, your right hand would grab hold of me. 11 If I were to say, “Certainly the darkness will cover me, and the light will turn to night all around me,” 12 even the darkness is not too dark for you to see, and the night is as bright as day; darkness and light are the same to you. 13 Certainly you made my mind and heart; you wove me together in my mother’s womb. 14 I will give you thanks because your deeds are awesome and amazing. You knew me thoroughly; 15 my bones were not hidden from you, when I was made in secret and sewed together in the depths of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw me when I was inside the womb. All the days ordained for me were recorded in your scroll before one of them came into existence. 17 How difficult it is for me to fathom your thoughts about me, O God! How vast is their sum total! 18 If I tried to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand. Even if I finished counting them, I would still have to contend with you. 19 If only you would kill the wicked, O God! Get away from me, you violent men! 20 They rebel against you and act deceitfully; your enemies lie. 21 O Lord, do I not hate those who hate you, and despise those who oppose you? 22 I absolutely hate them, they have become my enemies! 23 Examine me, and probe my thoughts! Test me, and know my concerns! 24 See if there is any idolatrous tendency in me, and lead me in the reliable ancient path! Context (NET)

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I'm not sure if the Jew was actually a Jew (by birth but not faith). I wonder if he wasn't a kabbalist or something occultically similar. Psalm 139 says nothing of the sort that he supposed it does. While it teaches that God is inescapable that is a far cry from "God in Satan". This individual apparently sees the two as somehow intertwined with one another. At least that's the way I read what was posted. Anyone else have any thoughts?

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I'll take Panenthism for 100 Alex...
Job 1:12 says, "So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord."
While it is an extremely deep subject, God is everywhere, but He is not in everything as a physical presence as we think of it.

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Στηθι εδραιος, ως ακμων τυπτομενος. - Ignatius |II Timothy 4:2| All Scripture is NKJV, unless a translation from the Greek text or otherwise noted.
M.A. Theological Studies (New Testament), Faith Seminary, Tacoma WA
Member, Evangelical Theological Society, North American Patristics Society.
Assistant Editor and contributing author of several published and forthcoming publications.

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It reminds me of what the Dalai Lama said to the New York hot dog vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

You guys are hilarious!

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Perhaps the 'jew' was suggesting that christianity makes too much of satan, being some sort of independent stand-alone nasty man, whereas we should realise that satan is an instrument of God?

Here are some thoughts: (KJV)
Satan was purposely created for the purpose of being the adversary.
He in his role as the destroyer is a servant of God

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Jesus said that Satan was a liar and a murderer "from the beginning" Why? because he was created to be one and who would know that better than the Creator?

Satan has to ask for and receive permission from God before he acts.

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired (petitioned) to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Satan also does as the Lord bids him to do

Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

If satan is just a tool in God's hand's, then he may be the front-man, but behind him (at the heart of it all) is God.

Pil

P.S. I don't know if the above scriptures are panenthistic but I don't half fancy cobra's hot-dog

Is not sheol a general term the Jews used to describe a generic afterlife, even the grave or the tomb? It is not a term that relates to the final fire and brimstone lake of fire. God does not exist there. However, the Bible, in the N.T. does make several references to the after life and mentions that there are temporary holding places for the dead such as paradise, and hades(hell) until the Judgement seat of Christ, (heaven) and the unbeliever's judgement. Sheol obviously in this context is polarized against heaven (shameh), bad versus good destinations of the soul. I don't see reference that deals with the eternal destination of the believer or unbeliever, rather a general destination of one's temporal path of the soul. Certainly sheol has a negative reference, but it is certainly a long way from God living in Satan's heart.

I think we indeed should. However, we also need to be careful how we treat this specific subject.



The book of Job comes to mind regarding this topic. God chose to chastise Job according to His purpose. Your last sentence is very telling, and you should be careful on what you draw from it. Indeed, this issue revolves around the sovereignty of God, and I have no problem in accepting that. However, it appears to me that the Bible overall also expands or attempts to explain other attributes of God. From our perspective (finite) we will have problems harmonizing or coming to a complete understanding in such matters. Nothing wrong with exploring, but what you decide from the data can affect your faith in some way (word of caution). My 2 cents.

For someone or something to be "in the heart" of someone is a figure of speech. For God to be in one's heart means that God is extremely important to them, in a positive way but Satan opposes God. The Jewish person that wrote this silly thing did not understand the figure of speech being used.

Let's re-write it!

My vicar just came back from Israel. When he visited the wailing wall a jew came up to him and asked him what religion he was. He answered, then the jew asked "Do you believe that God is in the heart of Satan?"
"I like turtles." came the reply.
The jew then said, "Huh??"
"It's on Youtube." came the reply.
The Jew went home and laughed and laughed at the silly things on youtube.

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(Emphasis mine.)
SIGH!
Context....Please.

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Blessings,
Randy
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Antipater sums it up well enough:

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