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If we are to take Gods Word literally these 2 verses below tell us that when we are born again we are healed.

Isa 53:4 But he lifted up our illnesses, he carried our pain http://dev.bible.org/interlinear/heb2net/strong.php?s=2483


1 Pet 2:24, He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that dying to sins, we might live to righteousness; by whose stripes you were healed.

Note Isaiah was prophecy of what was to come, 1 Peter describes the fulfilment. Therefore Christians should not only be comfortable claiming salvation from sin through the blood but healing as already accomplished through his stripes.

There are times when one needs to approach the Elders
Jas 5:13-15, Is any among you afflicted? Let him pray. Is any cheerful? Let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will cure the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up. And if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him.

It is interesting that some believe God allows sickness so that we will learn from it, I have in the past wondered about this but a loving caring God would not do this and our God is a God of love Luk 6:35-36, 2 Cor 13:11, therefore we can approach him with confidence surely, if he is good to those 'that are full of sin' how much more is he to those whom are covered in the Blood of Jesus.

Claiming your healing, do not be tossed two and fro with doubt

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. - Therefore persist in faith and not to be tossed to and fro by every doubt or circumstance. Believe me if you start to take hold of some of Gods promises the biggest enemy sometimes can be those one is surrounded by. E.g. how many times did my faith get challenged in believing God for healing with Gout (non alcohol related) by 'caring bro's and sis's in the faith. 'Well if it be Gods will', 'sometimes he teaches us through these things', then you might get the person pray for you 'God if it be your will', Jesus told us to pray 'thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven' A loving God does not desire his sons and daughters to suffer in illness, this is not his will. Satan is the author of sickness Luke 13:16, Mat 12:25, teaches us if a kingdom is divided against itself then it shall not stand. Jesus went about healing and delivering people from sickness and infirmities Act 10:38, Jesus is God 2 Pet 1:1, therefore God does not bring sickness rather Satan does.

1 Pet 1:5-8, God's power protects you through your faith, and it keeps you safe until your salvation comes. That salvation is ready to be given to you at the end of time. I know the thought of that is exciting, even if you must suffer through different kinds of troubles for a short time now. These troubles test your faith and prove that it is pure. And such faith is worth more than gold. Gold can be proved to be pure by fire, but gold will ruin. When your faith is proven to be pure, the result will be praise and glory and honor when Jesus Christ comes. You have not seen Christ, but still you love him. You can't see him now, but you believe in him. You are filled with a wonderful and heavenly joy that cannot be explained.

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Favourite verse John 7:37-39

Perhaps delievered instead of healed from sin by the blood of Christ. Christians are not there yet. We still have a sin nature to deal with as in being born again, one must first crawl before they can walk and even to that degree while this earthly existense keeps a foot on ground and finger in heaven so to speak we will not be healed until we are glorified in God's new creation.

One needs to see the trees while looking at the forest. A quote from bruce Lee "It is like a finger pointing at the moon, do not focus on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory". Stitching together scripture needs the same guidence IMHO. Examining the exegetical statement of scripture, requires one to ask, what did it mean then in the nature of historical, grammatical, contextual, & litererary interpretation. And always in prayer, one of the most powerful words that stand out in scripture if not the most important word is prayer. Christians as a whole need to be in prayer, all else will follow in God's timing at his pleasure...

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Thats why I follow Jesus and not Bruce Lee maybe you need to follow the correct leader

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Favourite verse John 7:37-39

I think you have misinterpreted my statement as you have scripture and it’s implications for us today

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Heb 13:8

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Favourite verse John 7:37-39

It is not a question of Jesus, yesterday, day and forevermore, no one Christian argues this (in an irenic fashion) period. There is a thing called orthodoxy (right belief) and orthopraxy (right practice), that all Christians adhere too, that is the binding thread that separates us from the world. These so called “grand traditions” of which ALL orthodox Christians adhere too; that what we believe to be the truth for all time.
You are making a statement about healing but more specific to God’s love, that it appears you are saying God would never do this.



Suffice to say and abundantly in the texts of scripture, are many examples of Love that is often accompanied by chastisement, if not death. An example in point, Saul Israel’s first anointed king and his kingdom removed from him and his death (1Samuel 31).
I wonder how many Christians are experiencing a painful death or life threatening situation in Japan right now. How are they handling a statement like God would not allow this suffering? We have to be careful here the means does not support the end result for everything is accursed by God since the fall. Because his nature will not allow sin or anything else that conflict with his divine attributes. The natural order is compromised by a fallen order bore out of sin. Until such time has the new heavens, new earth and the New Jerusalem appears, we will have to endure through, not always, pain and suffering. It gives meaning to the statement perseverance of the saints...

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

One just needs to look at the story of Lazarus, Joh 1:11-45, God allows things to happen that Glory can be brought to him the Almighty, Joh 11:4, Jesus took his time allowing death to take its toll to show the power of Almighty God at work. Joh 11:6, he spent 2 days where he was thus was in no rush to aid, Lazarus was dead for 4 days by the time he got there, Joh 11:39.

Our bros and sis in Japan I grief for; and those in NZ, Brazil and not the least Aust of late, using an attempt at guilt, this is not of the Spirit.

Through these events are opportunity for God to be glorified through healing; and lost souls seeking and finding God. It is a time to believe in the true sense not just a verbal commitment, and take to those that believe healing and to those that do not healing and the Gospel of salvation.

The Kingdom of God is sometimes referred to as the end time, but often referred to as Jesus being here with us 'the here and now'

Luk 10:9-11, And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Mar 6:5-6 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Nothing has changed; due to unbelief today's church often fails to see the miraculous.


Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. - I use this word not that I do not agree one needs to use right belief or practice but rather the vein attempt to just use 'academic' words as an attempt to gain an upper hand is obscene to say the least. Why not just say right belief instead of an attempt to use a word that you feel maybe superior to your readers intelligence, oh dear me.

I have no objection to academic books, as read some myself however get back to the Bible Gods Word to us Yesterday, today and forever. Academic books eventually will be obsolete.

Again to say your words are followed by 'all Christians' is living a deceit although I do agree strongly that one cannot stand alone on doctrine 2Pet 1:20, which I certainly do not

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Favourite verse John 7:37-39

Wayne,
We "are" healed, but we do not see the fullness of our healing now. This is as it should be. We are looking for a better kingdom. If we should see it now (just as with the fullness of our salvation...which is technically our healing anyways)...then we should not be looking for our Lord's coming and the end to sin and death which were definitively defeated at the cross and tomb, but await the day they will be cast into the lake of fire. What we experience of our salvation (in our souls and in our bodies) is but a foretaste of what we shall someday know fully. These bodies will still decay and die (unless our Lord returns before that should happen). Any physical healing we receive only restores a body that is not the body fit for eternity anyways. We long for a recreated being...where (though we have been made "a new creation") we shall be like Him and our mortal bodies shall put on immortality. We do not lay claim to this yet as having happened, but it is most definitely assured through the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and so we receive it with His fullest assurance knowing that what He has begun He will see through to its finish.

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Hi Rick

Cant say I agree with that in full, yes the new imperishable body is yet to come, yet nothing like a repair kit whilst we wait. Jesus did not tell those that came to him to wait for the second coming he healed all there and then, the Apostles did not say wait until you have a new body rather they healed there and then. I cannot find the scripture in the Bible that says wait til I come back rather it says Mat 7:7-11, Mat 18:19-20, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14. Was this only available to the Apostles? Mark 16:15-20 Jesus told his disciples to go and make Disciples and who ever believes will have the same authority to prove that the message is true.

Eph 1:23 he used to raise Christ from death and put him at his right side in the heavenly places. He put Christ over all rulers, authorities, powers, and kings. He gave him authority over everything that has power in this world or in the next world. God put everything under Christ's power and made him head over everything for the church. The church is Christ's body. It is filled with him. He makes everything complete in every way. (note 'this world or in the next')

Eph 2:4-6 But God is rich in mercy, and he loved us very much. We were spiritually dead because of all we had done against him. But he gave us new life together with Christ. (You have been saved by God's grace.) Yes, it is because we are a part of Christ Jesus that God raised us from death and seated us together with him in the heavenly places. God did this so that his kindness to us who belong to Christ Jesus would clearly show for all time to come the amazing richness of his grace. I mean that you have been saved by grace because you believed. You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God

We have already entered the Kingdom of God 'God raised us from death and seated us together with him in the heavenly places', (past tense not future) those that believe that is, but your saying that this has not been achieved until the second coming and thus Christ came the first time in vein and may as well have only come the second time round. The Victory is there already, healing is just to be claimed, just like forgiveness is. yes eventually the physical will eventually pass away but we remain alive in Christ 1Cor 15:55-58 Oh death where is your sting!

I take my victory now, but guess if you choose you can wait til later; does this mean I will sin no more? nope but I ask forgiveness and move on, will I get an illness again? maybe but I stand on 'by his stripes we are healed' and if need be trot along to the elders for prayer if need be.

It is all there in Black and White plus Red Gold (Jesus words), and do not forget Paul's letters were mainly for the Gentiles so nothing died out with the Apostles as some do suggest.

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Favourite verse John 7:37-39

Wayne,
You can "claim" whatever you wish...this does not make it a present reality. It either IS or it ISN'T. We have certainly received the fullness of our salvation (all that constitutes what we are as redeemed humanity), but await the final consummation of Christ's return. An over-realized sense of it all simply being present fully today ignores the present reality of sin, sickness and death and the the soon coming of Christ who ALONE ushers in His kingdom. While we represent the inbreaking of His kingdom into this age of sin and death...it awaits His coming again for the fullness of that age...where sin and death will be finally dealt with. The reality is that any healing you receive does not remove the fact that you and I will die (unless Christ returns before that day). In other words, our healing is only temporary. Further, any healing is only the healing of a body awaiting the change to immortality. Do not collapse what we are waiting for into the present. You are correct to note that our Lord is still very present in the work of healing and delivering. This is the inbreaking of His kingdom...demonstrating that He is already seated by His Father and we are already seated with Him....but we await the Day that that will finally be realized. It is...but not yet. When I pray for the sick, I know that Jesus is in the business still of healing because that is what He does. He saves, heals, and delivers. It is to His glory to do so...but it points to a better Day when all will finally be made right. When we shall see Him and know Him as He truly is and we shall finally be transformed to His glorious body. But until that Day He mercifully saves and sanctifies and heals and delivers and maintains us even in the days of our troubles and temptations and sickness even unto death...because His ways are not our ways...and He knows what we need to make us to be the people we must be...being comformed to Him in trials and testing.

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And the scripture to back this up?

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Favourite verse John 7:37-39

Hi Wanelad,

I agree with most of your comments.

However Paul had a "thorn in his flesh" and wasn't relieved of it, though he prayed to God.

How do you deal with that?

Hi 32k thanks here is my summation on the Buffet sent by Satan

2Co 12:7 and by the surpassing revelations, lest I be made haughty, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be made haughty.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord three times, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And He said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore I will rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may overshadow me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I am pleased in weaknesses, in insults, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am powerful.

The thorn was to keep Paul humble due to the superior knowledge he had gained, Gods grace was sufficient vs 9 and the power of Christ to be shown through Pauls weakness. The testimony that comes through persecution eg Stephens as he was stoned to death, brings glory to Christ as who in their right mind would stand in their confession during such circumstances if it were not true.

Sickness is not mentioned in verse 7 (problem with holding traditional thinking) rather a messenger from Satan, I believe verse 10 sums it up (insults, hardships, persecutions). Verse 7 'A messenger from Satan' to buffet me, to buffet means to strike repeatedly. Pauls persecution was the buffeter sent by Satan, Acts 14:19, 2 Co 11:25, and persecution is one thing we are pretty well guaranteed to receive if we are walking and talking Jesus

Just a little further into 2nd Cor
2Co 11:25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked. I have spent a night and a day in the deep.
2Co 11:26 I have been in travels often; in dangers from waters; in dangers from robbers; in dangers from my race; in dangers from the heathen; in dangers in the city; in dangers in the wilderness; in dangers on the sea; in dangers among false brothers.
2Co 11:27 I have been in hardship and toil; often in watchings; in hunger and thirst; often in fastings; in cold and nakedness;
2Co 11:28 besides the things outside conspiring against me daily, the care of all the churches.
2Co 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is caused to stumble, and I do not burn?
2Co 11:30 If it is right to boast, I will boast of the things of my weakness.
2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I do not lie.

Paul was kept humble by persecution so that he could boast in his weaknesses so that Christ could be glorified 2 Cor 11:30

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Favourite verse John 7:37-39

Wanelad:

Would you agree that immortality is given to us as part of Christ's atonement?

Wanelad, God is most glorified when we conform to his image in Christ. Don't have time to respond completely, but will do soon as possible
peace & grace

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.