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Christ (Word) the mystery of God.
The apostles preached the wisdom of God, hidden in a mystery, that God determined before the ages for our glory (1 Cor 2:7; Colossians 1:26-7), It is the Word (John1:1) that became flesh and took residence among us (John1:14) who is Christ which they crucified ( 1 Cor 1:23) to fulfill the message of cross which is the wisdom and power of God ( 1 Cor 1:18 )

Why thus Christ made an offering? because, Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.John 3:16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

John 12:24 I tell you the solemn truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it produces much grain.(kernel of wheat is the seed) and the seed is the Word of God Luke 8:11 (emphasis mine).

Matthew 22:42-45 “What do you think about the Christ? “ Whose son is he?” They said, “The son of David (Matthew1:1; Luke 1:32);43 He said to them, How then does David by the Spirit call him ‘Lord,’ saying, 44 ‘The Lord said to my lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’? 45 If David then calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?

Paul wrote in Galatians 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his descendant. Scripture does not say, “and to the descendants,” referring to many, but “and to your descendant, referring to one, who is Christ.

And if Christ is (seed) descendant of Abraham why is it that Jesus said in John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, before Abraham came into existence, I am!”

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How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

Outdated 19th century liberal "Jesus Quest" scholarship + Quaker spiritism = heretic. It is frustrating to me that the "Jesus-wasn't-considered-divine-until-Nicea" assertion continues to be spouted, even though it is demonstrably false, and, if I'm honest, a little silly.

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Στηθι εδραιος, ως ακμων τυπτομενος. - Ignatius |II Timothy 4:2| All Scripture is NKJV, unless a translation from the Greek text or otherwise noted.
M.A. Theological Studies (New Testament), Faith Seminary, Tacoma WA
Member, Evangelical Theological Society, North American Patristics Society.
Assistant Editor and contributing author of several published and forthcoming publications.

Exactly, what you say is true,because people now worshipped two type of Jesus one is the Jesus Christ who sat at the right hand of the Majesty and the other is the historical Jesus of Nazareth which is born of virgin Mary.
Jesus preached in John 4:23-24 But a time is coming – and now is here– when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such people to be his worshipers. 24 God is spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”.

Paul commented in Acts 17:23-30

Acts 17:23-30 23 For as I went around and observed closely your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: ‘To an unknown god.’ Therefore what you worship without knowing it, this I proclaim to you. 24 The God who made the world and everything in it, who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by human hands, 25 nor is he served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives life and breath and everything to everyone. 26 From one man he made every nation of the human race to inhabit the entire earth, determining their set times and the fixed limits of the places where they would live, 27 so that they would search for God and perhaps grope around for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28 For in him we live and move about and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we too are his offspring.’ 29 So since we are God’s offspring, we should not think the deity is like gold or silver or stone, an image made by human skill and imagination. 30 Therefore, although God has overlooked such times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent, Context (NET)

2 Corinthians 13:5 Put yourselves to the test to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize regarding yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you – unless, indeed, you fail the test!

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How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

Sorry Verbatim, this makes no sense to me at all. The Jesus who sits at the right hand of the Majesty on high (Hebrews 1:1-4) is the same Jesus of Nazareth who was born of the virgin Mary (Matthew 1:23). To properly worship one is to worship both because they are one and the same Son of God (John 1:1-14; Colossians 1:15-20).

You quote a passage (John 4:23-24) where Jesus is talking with a Samaritan Woman. IMO Jesus' point is that worship "in spirit" is worship in the Holy Spirit who has no boundaries and can inhabit praise without the temporary limitations of a temple or a mountain (see John 4:20).The Holy Spirit contines the work begun by Jesus (John 14:16-18; Acts 2:33). Marks of the time Jesus is talking about are the removal of the veil between God and His people (Matthew 27:51), the removal of the barrier between the Jews and the Gentiles (Acts 10-11), and the ability of Christians to worship God anywhere without the need of a temple of any kind (John 4). However, though we now have our worship inhabited by the Holy Spirit we still worship the God in three persons Father, Son, & Holy Spirit. We should not seperate the physical Christ (God the Son) from the person of Christ (still God the Son) who sits at the Majesty on High. To do so would be a kind of neo-gnosticism IMHO.

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Blessings,
Randy
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I duly respect and acknowledge your faith and recognition that the historical Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus Christ who ascended and sat at the riht hand of Majesty are one as John 2:22.

The verse above has various meaning depending on how the Holy Spirit teaches us. It was said, that God is Spirit and the Father is seeking a worshipper in spirit and in truth. How could we actual worship a spirit? and how is to worship in truth? What is the truth?If we are praying and calling or worshipping the God who was in the somewhere high, are we not worshipping things of imaginary God? In contrary to;
2 Corinthians 13:5 Put yourselves to the test to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize regarding yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you – unless, indeed, you fail the test!
Which are reveal and preached by the apostles through the Scripture;
Colossians 1:26-27 that is, the mystery that has been kept hidden from ages and generations, but has now been revealed to his saints. 27 God wanted to make known to them the glorious riches of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

I respect your opinion and here is mine; The barriers between Jew and Gentiles were reconciled by new covenant.

Ephesians 2:12-16 12 that you were at that time without the Messiah, alienated from the citizenship of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who used to be far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, the one who made both groups into one and who destroyed the middle wall of partition, the hostility, 15 when he nullified in his flesh the law of commandments in decrees. He did this to create in himself one new man out of two, thus making peace, 16 and to reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by which the hostility has been killed. Context (NET)

Agree,John5:23
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.12 The one who has the Son has this eternal life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have this eternal life. 13 I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Regards.

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How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

Context:

On the time of Jesus death, what is the meaning and how was the temple curtain was torn in two?

How was it torn in two?
[quote]Matthew 27:50 Then Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and gave up his spirit.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any double-edgedsword, piercing even to the point of dividing soul from spirit, and joints from marrow; it is able to judge the desires and thoughts of the heart.{/quote]
The word of God which is living and active work in ti action the curtain which is the flesh will be separated and divide from the soul/spirit. The word is what the b;ood of Jesus spoke in Hebrews 12:24 sealed the New Covenant.
Parallel with John 5:28“Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice.
Matthew 27:52 -53 (They 92 came out of the tombs after his resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.)(NET)

In spiritual aspect what could we learn behind the veil therefore in the flesh of Jesus? ( Heb 10:20 ) Before Jesus is conceive in the womb of Mary, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Lord is God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. So, the ‘Word’ in spiritual is synonymous with life John 1:4; 9 , who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.

In 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 Paul manifested about the the words of Jesus “ And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. So, the bread is synonymous with the ‘Word’ because in reality there is no Scripture that will show that Jesus flesh/body is literally broken so, this is a figure of speech which parallel to what Jeremiah say in Jeremiah 15:18
eremiah 15:16
NET© 15:16 As your words came to me I drank them in, 1 and they filled my heart with joy and happiness because I belong to you. 2
NIV© 15:16 When your words came, I ate them; they were my joy and my heart’s delight, for I bear your name, O LORD God Almighty.
NASB© 15:16 Your words were found and I ate them, And Your words became for me a joy and the delight of my heart; For I have been called by Your name, O LORD God of hosts.
Jesus prescribed that we do it often in rememebrance of him 1 Corinthians 11:24

John 6:50-58 50 This is the bread that has come down from heaven, so that a person may eat from it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats from this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” 52 Then the Jews who were hostile to Jesus began to argue with one another, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me, and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so the one who consumes me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven; it is not like the bread your ancestors ate, but then later died. The one who eats this bread will live forever.” Context (NET)

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How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

Let me first of all make it clear that I have no problem with the "Deity of Christ". My understanding is that in eternity, Jesus, the second person of the Trinity is God, always has been God, and always will be God. Never at any time in eternity did Jesus, the Son of God, divest Himself of His Deity.

However, what we are now about to consider is not His existence in eternity, but His human life of 33+ years here on earth some 2,000 years ago.

Having said this, I would value your comments on the following verses of Scripture.

Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

John 5:30. “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. ESV.

1. How can God possibly say, "I can do nothing on my own".

2. How can God possibly say, "As I hear, I judge".. Who does God take instruction from?

3. Since when did God not seek His own will?

4. Who sent God?

Jhn 7:16 So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me.
Jhn 7:17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.

Thank you.

Edwin.

Edwin

I think Paul answered all your questions rather well

Philippians 2:5-11 5 You should have the same attitude toward one another that Christ Jesus had, 6 who though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself by taking on the form of a slave, by looking like other men, and by sharing in human nature. 8 He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death – even death on a cross! 9 As a result God exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow – in heaven and on earth and under the earth – 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Context (NET)

and the notion that Jesus did not consider Himself the Son is answered by John 8 (among the many, many other places in the Gospels)

John 8:57-59 57 Then the Judeans replied, “You are not yet fifty years old! Have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, before Abraham came into existence, I am!” 59 Then they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out from the temple area. Context (NET)

I included the surrounding verses to show that the Jews understood very well what Jesus was saying and claiming!

in Christ

Dinah

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1 -- Jesus is part of the Trinity
2 -- the Father
3 -- see Dinah's post
4 -- the Father

Thank you dcljoy for your comments.

Are you in fact saying that Philippians 2:5-11 indicates that during the time Jesus was a man on earth, He divested Himself of His Deity, and that verse 9 shows His Deity was returned to Him by His Father after His resurrection ?

And this is confirmed at John 8:58 where His statement, “I tell you the solemn truth, before Abraham came into existence, I am!”, indicates His Deity prior to His birth as a human ?

Every blessing.

Edwin.

Edwin,

I think the scripture cited speaks for itself.

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Not all those who wander are lost.

Edwin

Jesus could no more divest Himself of His divinity than we can divest ourselves of our humanity .... rather what Phil.2 is talking about is stripping Himself of the privileges of His divinity, and taking to Himself what He was not before, humanity.

Jesus lived on this earth as a man, in the power of the Holy Spirit, but He was, and is and always will be God .... that is what divinity is, it is not something that you can take on and off like clothing.

Because this is so hard for out finite minds to grasp, those who insist on something that they can fully understand tend to wander off into Arianism, or Docetism ... or any number of other "isms"

rather let us do what those in Heaven do, they whose sight is much clearer than ours at this time .... and worship!

in Christ

Dinah

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what Jesus did was that He give up the voluntary use of his Deity, as he "limited" Himself to be found as a sinless man, one who "operated" on earth by fellowship with his father and relying uopon the Holy Spirit to empower him, but was still always God!

In agreement with Yahweh1 and dcjoy's posts about Philippians 2, here is a quote from Vine's:As the continued existence as Deity is already stated, the self emptying must have been the exercise of the rights of Deity.Jesus emptied himself by adding not by taking away.

Yes, as His kenosis would have involved Him being willing to take on the form of a Human being, one w/o a sin nature, so he was limited at that time to eating/sleeping/being hurt/dying, things as JUST in the form of God would never do!