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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:55 pm 
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I am writing an paper on the translation in the NT of the term doulos in original Greek as meaning "Slave" instead of the modern usage of the word "servant".

However, understanding Greco-Roman Slavery not American Western idea of Slavery; I have asked the question and have been chewing on it for the past day or so:

How can we be both a Slave of Christ and a Child of God?

My only thought I have been able to come up with is perhaps looking at the story of Joseph whose brothers sold him into slavery and who eventually became Ruler over them and rescued them from trouble and saved them from famine and death but was still their brother and still a child of their Father.

I would love to hear y'all's thoughts.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:59 pm 
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wasn't the concept more like that of the bondslave? -- the slave who, upon receiving his/her freedom, pledged themself to the household -- they would have their ear pierced @ the door & wear the earring as a badge of honor


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:07 am 
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G. Adolf Deissmann wrote in Light in the ancient East that the translators did a great disservice when they translated doulos as servant. ("Light from the Ancient East, p. 319). "The stupendous force of dogmatic tradition, and the fact that the word slave with its satelites has been translated servant to the total effacement of its ancient significance, in our Bibles." (Deissmann, p. 319)

Even though we are slaves of Christ, we are also free. "...the slave of Christ is at the same time free: indeed, he is 'the Lord's (i.e. Christ's) freedman..." Deissmann, Light from the Ancient East, p. 326.

In the book "Slavery from the rise of Western Civilization To Today," by Milton Meltzer, he writes that the Greek and Roman slaves were treated better as opposed to our concepts of slavery in North America. He stated that they were given trades but there was harsh punishment for disobedience. In addition some slaves were appointed as tutors (paidagogos) to lead their students. It was a case where a young "master" was led by a slave.

We also know that when we are under the yoke of Christ His burden is easy. Matt. 11:29-30 "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." NIV


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:20 am 
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They are both the language of images...not to be taken in a literalistic fashion. Thus, they are not in any way contradictory nor even a problem to understand as coordinated though distinct concepts essential to the Christian life. You would do well to not go searching for literalistic examples, but to understand they each speak to various components of our relationship to the Father, Son and Spirit.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Thanks!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Both the image of "slave" and "servant" conveys an image of one is in submission to his master. Christ (the Son of God) demonstrated this kind of subservience to his Father without ever bringing in to question his "sonship;" he modeled for us what it means to be both a "child of God" and "subservient to God."


We have Freedom in Christ, because our Father (master) is the perfect example of goodness. Our Freedom comes because of WHO our Master is.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:16 am 
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I hope this is not too far off topic. It's closely related in my mind.

At the last supper, Jesus began washing the feet of His disciples. I'm not sure of the linguistic imagery here, but the graphical imagery is unmistakeable: He was acting as a servant would act. And the reaction of the disciples, especially Peter, is predictable. He objects to being served by the one who is his master and teacher.

It seems to me that the concept of leader as servant is a very important one in the Gospels, and that the way we are to act if we wish to lead people to Christ is laid out for us very plainly.

I don't know if the words for "servant" or "slave" appear in the accounts of the foot washing. Again, graphically, the connection is unmistakeable, even if different words are used.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:56 am 
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In the context of foot washing, only in John's gospel chapter 13, Jesus refers to himself indirectly in verse 16 as doulos when he makes the statement "Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master..." NASB

I remember quite a few years ago reading a book called Servant Leadership but I have not seen many topics or books on this topic.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:41 am 
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I found, while doing some research for a message, this statement about being a slave of Christ by G. Adolf Deissmann, in "Light from the Ancient East." He writes "The analogy which has been already claimed on linguistic grounds between the oldest name for followers of Christ (Christianos). 'Christian,' and kaisapianos 'Caesarian,' 'imperial slave,' receives in this connection new and remarkable illustration." p. 377 This statement reinforces the idea that Christian means follower of Christ and in another sense a slave to him.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:54 am 
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Here's a little scripture to throw into the mix:

Galatians 4:1 (As long as the heir is a child, he differs nothing from a slave, though he be lord of all)

Philippians 2:5-8 (...Christ Jesus... emptied himself, taking a slave's form...humbled himself, becoming obedient...)

I also recommend Michael Card's book "A Better Freedom" which describes slavery in the Bible (Old Testament and Roman) and makes the connection of what it means to be a slave of Christ. It's interesting how many New Testament epistles begin with the author describing himself as a slave.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:53 pm 
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GaryM wrote:
I remember quite a few years ago reading a book called Servant Leadership but I have not seen many topics or books on this topic.


The part I bolded above speaks VOLUMES!! I think that is a real problem with todays version of "churchianity" no one wants to be a servant...but I have found the more I serve others the better my relationship with God :)

Sorry didn't mean to get off topic - carry on ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:12 pm 
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i like this characterization from Peter:

2 Pet. 1:1 -- From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours.

notice which came 1st


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:07 pm 
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How many of us are running down the aisle to become slaves? True slaves? Bondslaves and obedient to our Master?

Oh the freedom of being one of His!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:25 pm 
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me thinks you don't understand the concept contained in the verse i offered


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:33 pm 
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Good question bomac. (By the way, welcome to the forum.) I agree with Deissmann, the article I cited earlier in this thread. We have softened the idea of doulos from slave, its real meaning, to servant. The idea of suffering in Christ would really be the idea of the slave. "The treatment of their slaves by numerous Romans, especially in Republic times, according to modern ideas frightful and unspeakable...one of the worst blots on the history of the human race." quote from Michael Grant, "The World of Rome," p. 133.

In the Kittel lexicon he writes (2:261) a slave (whio is not recognized by Greeks) who is totally dedicated to someone, loses all self. The idea of a slave and the idea of being dedicated to someone in loss of self would seem to be a biblical concept.


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