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Can any one comment on the parable of sheep and the goat ?

I found this very fascinating.

Let me please ask you.

Is it literal ?
Is this some thing about good vs bad or evil ? Sinner vs sinners ? Believers vs non believers ? Are goats considered sinners ? JC asks us to visit Jail, supposedly isn't it something holding the sinners ?

What is your take ?

While you are thinking please let me explain my understanding, not that you need to agree with me.

Jesus appeared to be very much against the religious people of that time. And these people were not ordinary people and in fact many of them were well read and knowledgeable. But Jesus called them hypocrites. Please correct me if I am wrong, hypocrisy is duality or double standard. In that mind set as Dale Carnegie puts it there will be comparison, criticism and condemning (3 C's). One can observe that the parables and teaching of Jesus are clearly grounded in nonduality. In the parable of sheep and goat Jesus is not concerned about the bad or the evil people or the sinners or even the non believers. He identified religious people who compared and kept the scores as the goats.

In His name

Love

The parable seems to refer to those who either do or don't do what they should in relation to those who belong to Christ. The "duality" is to suggest that there are only two: those who actually care for Christ's brothers and those who don't. Which will we be? Our faith will show itself through our obedience to do what must be done. That is how I understand what Jesus has said here.

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Hi kishan,
Your topic is very big that it almost cover half of the scripture.Jesus concern is not only for ordinary people especially to those who believe on God and on the scripture.Sheep and Goat are just an example but it define two kind of believer, one
is the sheep, those who truly know and understand if who is God and the other one the goat, represent those who had faith in God but does not know who He is.

THe parables of the ten virgin;which half of it was classify as wise and the other five is foolish Matthew 25:2 The wise one
took their oil in their vessels with their lamp and the foolish took their lamp with no oil in them.This also include the parable of talents which were entrusted by the Lord to his servant which was distributed it to them.
To make story short this all pertain to the judgment day when God will judge all men according to his deeds whether good or bad.(I'm not telling here of the last day or rapture in endtimes)

The seperation of sheep from goat is as follow,the sheep are those who hear and know the voice of his shepherd
Romans 10:4,14 and shall inherit the kingdom of God.The goat are those who does not know God and curse for condemantion.

The sheep or the elect was Jesus mention in Romans 10:16 And other sheep I have,which are not of this fold:them also I must bring and they shall hear my voice;and there sahll be one fold,and one shepherd.
Matthew25:34 Then the king shall say unto them on his right hand,Come ye blessed of my Father,inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Matthew 25:41 Then he shall say unto them on the left hand,Depart from me,ye cursed,into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels.

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How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

Hi all,
This a contunuation of my recent post.
I would define how a sheep or a faithful,righteous believer no by law or self righteousness but by Romans 3:24-28 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
(v.25)Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood,to declare his righteouness for the remission
of sin that are past,through the forbearance of God.(v.26) To declare, I say,at this time his righteousness; that he might just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.(v.27)Where is boasting then? It is excluded.By what law? of works?
Nay:but by the law of faith. (v.28)Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

What is the work of the sheep or the elect ones?

Matthew 25:34-40 Then the king said unto them on his right hand,Come ,ye blessed of my Father,inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
(v.35-39)I was hungered and you gave me meat;I was thirsty and gave me drink:I was stranger and ye took me in:
Naked and you clothed me,I was sick and visited me:I was in prison and you came unto me.

Then the righteous answer him,saying,Lord,when saw we thee unhungered,and fed thee?or thirsty,and gave thee drink?
When saw we a stranger,and took thee in?or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick,or in prison,and came unto thee?

(v.40)And the king shall answer and say unto them,verily I say unto you,In as much as you have done unto one oe the LEAST of these my brethren,you have done it on to me.

Jesus do not mean that we shall be a philantrophy to feed all people suffering from hunger but he clarify these as the least of brethren or a born again believer which was converted,and become as a little children,and humble himself as a little child and receive such child in his name,receiveth Christ.

How and what should we give Jesus to eat?
John 4:31 In the mean while his disciple prayed him,Master,eat.
John 4:32,34 But he sid unto them,I have meat to eat that you that ye know not of.And Jesus said unto them,My meat is to do the will of of him that sent me,and to finish his work.
This pertain to Jesus doctrine in John 6:53-56 Verily,verily,I say unto you,Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man,and drink his blood,ye have no life in you (v.56) He that eateth my flesh,and drinketh my blood,dwelleth in me,and I in him.

Rev.3:20 Behold I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice,and open the door,I will come in to him and will sup with him,and he with me.
Hope this help.

All scripture are NKJV unless otherwise indicated.

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How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

The Sheep and the Goats represent the different people groups in the world, one Group [The Sheep] are those who Christ died for, those He loved. Jn 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

The goats are the tares, the children of the wicked one Matt 13:

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

cp with Matt 25:


41Then shall he say also unto them[Goats] on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Now, by Nature, the Sheep are no better than the goats, but they had a different destiny purposed for them than the goats, you see, God blessed them [The Sheep] before the foundation to be inheritors of the Kingdom Matt 25:

34Then shall the King say unto them[Sheep] on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

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using kjv unless otherwise stated !

I do not disagree with any of you.

More about NONDUALITY and JESUS.

Mathew 13 24 – 30 and 36-43 TARES (WEEDS) AMONG WHEAT

24-30 when a farmer who had sown seeds of wheat in his field is asleep; his enemy came and sowed weed seeds among the wheat. The servants of the farmer discovered the deed and asked the farmer if they should pull up the weeds. The farmer said “No, lest while you gather up the tares (weeds) you root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

36-43 Jesus explains this parable to his disciples. Son of man is the sower of the good seed. The field is the world. Sons of kingdom are good seeds and the tares are the sons of the evil ones. Harvest is the end of the age, the reapers are the angels. The tares are gathered and burnt at the end of the age. Son of man will send angels to gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks. Wicked will be thrown into the fire. Then the righteous will shine like sun in the kingdom of their father. He who has ears let him hear.

Jesus ends the parable by saying “He who has ears let him hear”. I guess he wants us to go deeper and learn. The person who has ears to hear means to dig deeper, to pay attention or to contemplate or meditate. Could this be an intellectual exercise or this is a challenge?

In this parable one can superficially, instinctively and simply understand this is something to do about good and the evil. Jesus gives a vivid picture about the tares or the evil ones finally get burned. Angels will throw the wicked in to the furnace of fire, in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. This vivid picture really sticks to my mind. Some may even interpret this is what happens to non believers. It sounds logical, that wicked needs to be punished.

If this is true then what happened to the teaching of Jesus when he says to love our enemies? Where is Mr. Nice Jesus now?

When I re read the parable in verse 28 the slaves ask “do you want us to and gather them up? And the owner says to them adamantly No! You may uproot the root of the wheat while doing so. Not only that, he also wants us to wait till the harvest time. Why not earlier? Tares can be distinguished much before harvest and is it not better to get these out earlier so that these do not destroy the wheat? A good farmer usually weeds out earlier. But in the parable he wants them to wait till the harvest time, by which time one may think weeds have already caused enough damage. The farmer not only asks them to wait for the long period, he also asks the slaves to stay out and let the reapers to do the job of weeding out at harvesting.

My observation is this parable like other parables is about Ego (Dualistic) vs. Kingdom of God/heaven ( Non dualistic)

Seed of the wheat is the word of God; it is the Kingdom of Heaven. It is the kingdom of agape
(Unconditional) love and forgiveness. It is non judgmental. It is my inner light /consciousness, it is wholesome and non dualistic. In Upanishad it is called Advaita. In that frame of mind there is no ego. The egoless mind is not about how good or how bad one is. Egoistic or the dualistic mind keeps the score. It keeps comparing and contrasting. It tries to be more rational and based on logic. When Jesus calls for Loving our neighbor that includes enemies, we cannot look down on people whom we think are wicked. As per Jesus I cannot even judge them. But world thinks otherwise. Loving an enemy does not make sense. My instinct or logic tells me the evil needs to be eliminated or annihilated. Earlier I kill the enemy better it is. But Jesus tells radically the opposite. This is an absurd teaching and a hard teaching indeed.

Good (wheat) has to endure the pain of bad (tares) till the harvest time. The wheat is supposed to stay with tare (evil) enduring the pain and persecution. The owner clearly says No! to slaves, not to gather the tares and leave them till the harvest. I need to be patient, however long.
When I put my attention on negatives things sown by the ego and try to root them out through rational means it causes me to lose contact with the inner Light. When the inner (Divine) Light manifests to sufficient intensity it will automatically burn away the negatives

The reapers or the angels (verse 39) are the ones, not me/us, not slaves, in this parable do the job of burning the tares or throwing them into the furnace. When I concentrate on my goodness or positiveness, my light becomes so powerful the wicked gets burned automatically. Angels will do that job!! In Verse 41: they (angels) will gather out of His Kingdom all stumbling block” as harvest approaches our true light brightens like sun. The sun is least concerned about the darkness and it just minds its bright light). I cannot hold it, people will see that. The light gets unblocked. The parable ends saying righteous will shine like sun, so powerful, it totally unblocks (no stumbling block) and destroys wicked thoughts and actions and all we need to do is to clearly hear (or see)

This parable says if one is grounded in a wholesome non hypocritical mind of Jesus (One can call it non dualistic or Advaita) without any ego, one does not have to go after the negative or the wicked thing... The point is to focus on the positiveness and cultivate the inner consciousness of egoless mind. There is nothing to be afraid of evil.

I do not know whether I made any sense.

Love

In His name

If what you have meant all along by "non-duality" is some form of Eastern undivided "inner light," then you could not be further from the truth. This is not the intention of the parable or of anything to be found in Scripture. Such notions are antithetical to the Gospel and to the very being of Jesus Christ Himself. Further, the judgment of the wicked is a certainty according to Scripture (Mark 9:43, 48; Heb. 6:2; 2 Pet. 2:9; Rev. 20:15) and the judgment has been committed to the hands of Jesus Himself (John 5:22; 9:39). You appear to have much in the way of both Freudian teaching that you have received as well as Eastern mysticism and have simply tried to conjoin this to the Scriptures. I would encourage you to take the time to go through The Theology Program that is offered here at Bible.org to see if that will help you in your Christian walk to develop a more Biblically sound system of belief.

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Bible talks about hypocrites a lot and nobody talks about hypocrites in the Bible more often than Jesus himself. Jesus obviously frowned upon hypocrisy but what exactly is hypocrisy?
I do not see the difference between duality and hypocrisy. I am no exception and at times I have acted as a hypocrite.

I just found a few examples. In Matthew chapter 6 verse 2 Jesus says, "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth; they have received their reward in full." Jesus goes on to say, "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth; they have received their rewards in full." Matthew chapter 7. Verse 5 says, "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." I am sure there are several times the word is used.
Jesus I found is about nonduality to my understanding and that makes sense that Jesus had no problem with sinners but found problem with his religious people who were knowledgeable but were pretentious.

Love

Hi kishan,
Before you level me as a sarcastic, I would first ask to you to be fair in accepting the truth.
Before I had respond to you earlier, your OP was about the sheep and the goat and when other respond to you there
are changes of thought from the parables to hypocrisy, on which I think you describe as non dual and I think your right in your opinion.

For the sake of the truth, I would like to tell you that being non dualistic we shall be against the odds. Just observed from the beginning of creation. God created heaven and earth,first exist is dark and then the light, then came first is night(evening) and then day (morning) it was the first day. When God created man, he created them male and female.

So since the beginning God know better than us on what can pleased him, and he saw all his works are very good Gen 1:31
Even on the time before flood God command to Noah to take all kind of animals and beast clean or not clean male and female.

After the flood when the water dried up and the water abated, Noah sent forth a raven which forth and fro but did not come back to the ark. He then now sent a dove who come back with an olive leaf plucked off on her mouth. Gen 8:9-10
This two fowls can be parallel of the parable of sheep and goat, etc.

Even in midst of the garden God also planted two most important tree,the tree of Life and the tree of Knowledge of good and evil. God in his covenant given to Moises also place infront of him heaven and earth, life and death, blessing and cursing. Deut 30:19-20

There are so many works that God hath made for us to learn and we may need to rewrite the scripture if you wish to mention it all. So, in the end of this Ther is nothing better for a man, than he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was also from the hand of God. Eccleciastes 2:24

All scripture are NKJV unless otherwise indicated.

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How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

You seem to be confusing the notion of "duality" as an issue of hypocrisy and in your words the "Ego" and the "inner consciousness". Hypocrisy, as Jesus applied it to certain of the religious leaders of his day, was a reference to their claims to purity of heart, but the demonstration of the wickedness in their hearts by their actions. Jesus was not speaking to the issue of the "Ego" and "inner consciousness" but to a pretense of obedience (which was actually still sinful and in fact more thoroughly sinful because it was carried out by those who knew better) and genuine obedience. With the attitude to condemn in their sinfulness those who were sinful instead of themselves confessing and doing what was right so that they might better do what they could to call others from the darkness of sin into the light of obedience to God.

Jesus received any who would have him (religious leaders and blatant sinners alike), but he would not allow any of them to simply remain in their sin and called all who would to trust in him.

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Hello Verbatim: You are not sarcastic.

I am no scholar, I just love Jesus, he challenges me all the time.

Human nature as I observe is very much dualistic and Jesus being a nondualistic challenges me (I do not about you) every step of my way. Bible may be looked upon as dualistic, God created heaven and earth, dark and light, night and day, man and woman etc... Are these just literal or metaphors with much deeper meaning? In God terms can heaven or even earth be described in temporal and spatial terms? Literal darkness and night times do have purpose in our life. A very bright light can literally destroy one’s vision. Even though we were created as man and woman Bible says we are one. A human brain can never fathom real meaning of the words written by people who experienced God and wrote.
God planted two most important trees, the tree of Life and the tree of Knowledge of good and evil. Please let me ask you why God had to put both good and evil in one tree? If God were to be very clear about Good and evil he would have planted two separate trees, one for good and one for evil? It would have been easier for Adam and Eve. Then it makes sense eating from an evil tree one would behave badly and be punished. That did not happen. Adam and Eve also had the taste of goodness. People do not talk about this, but talk more about sinfulness. Bible is profoundly meaningful and more I read it is all about Love and forgiveness the markers of Nonduality.

Love

Kishon, just a quick point of clarification - there is but one matter addressed in the tree regarding good and evil ... it is the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil.

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“Lord, in my zeal for love of truth, let me not forget the truth about love.” - Thomas Aquinas
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Hi kishan,
Thanks for your response and I shall answer within what was written in scripture that we may learn not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. 1Corinthians 4:6
You are asking if why did God put good and evil in one tree. Why did he not create one tree for good and one tree for evil? I cannot answer this with my own thoughts. Romans 9:20-23 Nay, but O, man, who art thou that replies against God? Shall the things formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another to dishonor? What if God willing to show his wrath, and make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessel of wrath fitted to destruction. And he might make known the riches of glory on the vessel of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.

Isaiah 55:8-11 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heaven are higher than the earth , so are my ways higher your than ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and return not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater. So, shall my word be that goeth forth of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

When God declares something will happen, it will happen and it matter not on human will, desire, or effort. The idea that human can do what ever they want, and the Creator is incapable of stopping them or correcting, for fear that he may go” against” free will is absurd! There is only one Potter…the rest are his clay. He will mold them unto the tool that He so desire…and the sooner truly comes to acknowledge and accept the truth, the sooner one can begin his journey down to the road toward spiritual maturity.
God is the Creator and Master of the entire universe and let me assure you that HE IS IN FULL CONTROL OF IT.

regards,

All scripture are NKJV unless otherwise indicated.

_________________
How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Isaiah 52:7

Hello Verbatim :

Thank you for your post. Thank you for quoting Romans 9-20 23. I think it sounds similar to God’s answer to Job Ch 38-40. Job asked God and he never got a straight answer. There was no dualistic answer. God’s real purpose was to defeat Satan who tried his duality.
People of all religions still question why the merciful God allows pain and suffering in this world. Bad people flourish and bad things happen to good people. Eastern philosophy says it is all Karma, one reaps what one sows. There may be some truth but it does not answer the pain and suffering of many”good” people. How do we explain recent Tsunami and tornadoes that are still injuring and killing people?

In my last post I did not put an open ended question why God put both good and evil in one tree. Absolutely I am not trying to challenge Biblical wordings. The answer at least to me is clear and obvious. It is all about the most bizarre, totally illogical, irrational,non comprehensible, radical and insane LOVE of God described in Bible (not described in any other scriptures or religions that I know of ) and He knew love can never be full manifested without the freedom. Unfortunately "some" evil or the bad things came with that full freedom and I am certain God took the incredible RISK to see that Love endures forever. The suffering and the death of Jesus boldly testified the extreme extent of God's grace and Love.

I love the story of Footprints in the Sand, written by Mary Stevenson. Amen.

Agape or unconditional love is non dualistic, not some thing I can easily explain, but something that can be very profoundly experienced.

Love