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I would like to study the scriptures throughout the Bible that help to decipher the time of Satan's falling. What do you (anybody that reads this post) believe? And what is your scriptural evidence for this? I would like to know as much as possible from Scripture about the times before Adam was created.

Well, there's really not a lot in scripture. I don't have a copy but a book that covers it is John D. Schuetze's Angels and Demons.

http://online.nph.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1 ... tID=150605

The precise timing isn't given but it's after the creation of angels and before the creation of Adam and Eve.

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IMHO trying to nail down things which scripture is either vague about or simply does not discuss starts one down the path that Paul is warning Timothy against here. It is possible that this subject would promote "useless speculatons" rather than the redemptive plan that operates by faith.

Understanding what the Bible says about Satan's fall and what the Bible says about demons and how to combat the powers and principalities beyound our comprehension is a good thing IMO. Trying to decipher the exact "time of Satans falling" is in no way edifying IMO.

Just my .02 cents.

Blessings,
Randy

There is a video in the opening page of http://www.bible.org called the "cosmic conflict" the origin of evil. That may be of interest concerning the subject at hand. It's about 45 minutes worth, though I don't agree 100 % with it, it does provide a visual perception, that gets to the point, my 2 cents worth

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Where is it?

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Sorry it is a dvd. I went to the bible.org home page and see it is not there now. It is a product of amazingfacts and a web site to it is
http://www.CosmicConflict.com

Perhaps after a few people watch it, we can discuss the theological significance & accuracy of it

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Hmmm... I get their newsletters in the mail. Definitely on the end times track. The reviews on their site are pretty good for the film. Have to wait n see.

I had heard one theory that the fall of satan was after the creation of man but before the fall of man, (obviously). I think it was a jealousy angle, as God wanted fellowship with man made in God's image.
I read some of the book of Enoch but soon left my search for answers about the unrevealed and moved to what the meat of the bible really is about. My Hero, Jesus.

Grace and Peace
Robert

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Well, we can cut it further down from Job 1 and Job 2 to Isaiah 14:12-16.

In my opinion, if God cast Satan and his angels to earth then they are probably limited to go anywhere, and probably prohibit them from entering heaven. Job to Isaiah about 900 years apart.

I personally think that one is hard pressed to build a solid case for the timing of Satan's fall beyond the fact that it took place prior to Genesis 3. Indeed, the picture one has of all creation in Genesis 1 is that it was all good. This would suggest that there had not yet been a fall (though admittedly the account is earth-centric; that is, it has its focus upon planet earth and not on the rest of the cosmos.

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I do not think about Satan's fall very often, but a brother in Christ likes to go there. I discuss for a while, but I have to tell him, according to the scripture's we are to " Look unto Jesus" the author and finisher of our faith. It depends on weather a christian believes in the (Gap Theory)
some bible scholors teach there could have been a gap between Genisis 1,1 and Gen. 1,2, an indefinite amount of time......Like the brother said: does not bring forth fruits of righteousness.

usually i answer something like this..."the Scriptures clearly Tell us it happened @ 3pm"



some people nod in agreement -- some think about it & ask "where does it say that?" -- or "in what time zone?" -- my pt being we are not told & so my take is the 1 Randy shared above -- it's a provocative Q but not too useful with what we know from the Word

Perhaps this may be of some help, as there are a couple of sure ways to find out the Biblical answers to this great question. One is to compare the two floods, we must return to Gen 1:1 & 2 for the preliminaries. We read in Isa that God did not create the heavens and the earth tohu va bohu (without form and void), but that they became that way. In v 2 of Gen 1, we see the word written as 'was', yet, this same word is used in Gen. 2:7 and rendered 'became', and so it should be in Gen. 1:2 as well. Something happened. We find this great angelic foe within the first few pages of Scripture, so we don't know how much time transpired between the original creation and it having become 'without form and void'.

In Jer. 4, around v 18 or so, we find some remarkable claims regarding a judgment, by which we always find the words tohu and bohu in accompaniment with this concept. Note that in Jer. there are no more heavens &c &c. This is very different from the Noadic flood (where there are still stars and heavens). These are different because they are not the same.

Moreover, we find in, I believe is in Job around v 7, that a series of questions are being set forth, and here we find that there was a time before this angelic fall when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy

I would also say a word about Hebrew, namely, that in this language there is no way to express something being in position of becoming such an such a way. Either a thing has been, or it now is, but the language does not permit the transformation of a thing while it is 'becoming', it became that way, or it exists as it was before it became that way. Therefore when we read the word 'was' in Gen. 1:2, it is acceptable, using other of The Lord's examples, to translate the word 'became'.

And when was this time? It occurs between v 1 & 2 of Genesis 1. If any would like my analysis of the two floods, I would be happy to post them.


Of course, there are limitations to Scripture, as The Lord desires us to know what He believes we should be acknowledging, and it is in this vein where we should focus on that which He has chosen to reveal. As Bulinger notes, Let us not attempt to force back the roll beyond the appointed limits. Let us be content to say of some things that we do not know, because God has not told us. We shall be more pleasing to Him by so doing, than if we take the responsibility upon ourselves of completing the revelation which He has purposely left unfinished.

N2A,
Are you referring here to "E. W. Bullinger"? Or some unknown "Bulinger"?

As to your references to the verb "became" (Genesis 2:7) being the appropriate modifier of "was" (Genesis 1:2)...this would seem to be a rather large leap. It is the word for 'being' (hayah) and as such is VERY common. In Genesis 1:2 it is a Qal perfect and in Genesis 2:7 a Qal waw-consecutive....which means in Genesis 1:2 the normal and proper reading is "was" and in 2:7 "became". This verb also occurs (as Qal perfect or waw-consecutive) at Genesis 1:3 (2x), 5 (2x), 6 (2x), 7, 8 (2x), 9, 11, 13 (2x), 14 (2x), 15 (2x), 19 (2x), 23 (2x), 24, 29, 30, 31 (2x). Each individual context is determinative for meaning and I would be surprised to find that all these other occurences of the verb wouldn't have any more influence over the meaning in context than the one in 2:7. The notion of a 'gap' between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 has been rejected by most as ungrammatically possible...but I must say I agree with your closing statement...it's great advice.

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N2A,
There is no problem here with the quoting of Scripture...the problem is with your interpretation of Scripture. Apparently I have rubbed you the wrong way and for that I apologize, but you still have not answered any of my critique of your case which is SOLELY based upon the text of Scripture (as far as I can tell by rereading my arguments). Where exactly have I gone outside of the covers of Scripture to argue my case concerning your interpretation?

So do you actually hold to the Gap Theory then? I do not see how the reference in Isaiah 45:18-19 declares that the creation was perfect right away...please be so kind as to highlight such statements in the actual text for me. Also, it would seem that there was something lacking in creation from the beginning or else there would not have been 6 days of creation before the Lord declared all these things together "good" and then "rested". The way I understand it, verse one of Genesis one is a summary statement of what is to follow ("heavens and earth" refers to everything that was created). Verse two is a statement concerning the state of God's initial creation before he gives it form and fills it. The rest of the chapter meets the need of "formless and void" (tohu wabohu). Postulating a gap between these two verses is well beyond what the text of Scripture actually asserts for itself unless you have other evidence that you still have not shown.

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