The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

Then let me ask you this John.

Did God command the people to keep the extra portion of manna He provided on the sixth day so that they would not have to collect it on the seventh day?

Exodus 16:5 "And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

Why did God give them an extra portion?

Exodus 16:16 This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents.

Do you not realize that this is a command directly from God?

Exodus 22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23) And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

Do you not believe the Lord said this to Moses? He said it is the rest of the Holy Sabbath.

Exodus 24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. 25) And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field. 26) Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. 27) And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. 28) And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? 29) See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. 30) So the people rested on the seventh day.

What happened to those who defied God and went out on the seventh day anyhow to collect manna?

I know you will be so kind as to tell me what I am reading wrong in these verses??? It seems pretty clear to me that they were observing the Sabbath and this was LONG before the Ten Commandments had been given.

Will you please comment on the Scriptures themselves??? Rather than telling me I am wrong. Please show me where I am wrong....It's easy for you to say I am swrong but I insist you show me where......

By the way, chapter 16 also says they ate manna for 40 more years...

Cal R.

I have maintained from the beginning that the Ten Commandments were given prior to Moses receiving the Law. Can you correct me on that if I am wrong?

Also, I would ask you as well to read my answer to PastorJohn and to comment on what is wrong with the Scriptures as I quoted them. Tell me how they don't really say what they say.....

Peace

CR

Sorry, I promised to make shrimp scampi tonight and my wife is calling.......later.....

Actually, that's not correct, since the law of the Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the law concerning the firstborn son were both given before the Decalogue. Do you keep these three, since (according to your argument) these were given "before the Law"? If not, by your argument, you are being disobedient.

As far as people keeping the Shabat before the Decalogue, John is right. There is no explicit reference to people refraining from all work on the Shabat (which is the only requirement given. Going to the synagogue on the Shabat was a later tradition) before the Decalogue was given. You are simply assuming what happened over the course of the millennia without having evidence for it.

The "manna" argument is moot. God only commanded that they not gather on the seventh day. There is no evidence that they refrained from any other work.

_________________
Στηθι εδραιος, ως ακμων τυπτομενος. - Ignatius |II Timothy 4:2| All Scripture is NKJV, unless a translation from the Greek text or otherwise noted.
M.A. Theological Studies (New Testament), Faith Seminary, Tacoma WA
Member, Evangelical Theological Society, North American Patristics Society.
Assistant Editor and contributing author of several published and forthcoming publications.

Yes, Moses began to set down God's law for the Jews prior to the actual Covenant Ceremony - is that really a surprise? It is all of a piece.

Yet you are reading these things back centuries before Moses began to teach the Israelites what God expected of them before that "big" day recorded in Exodus 20. It still does not in any way indicate that God wanted anyone other than the Jews to observe the Sabbath.

You are still operating on an assumption rather than Biblical Revelation.

John

_________________
"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Gal 5:6b

Pastor John C. Blackburn

We must be reading different Bibles because mine says in Exodus 16:1:

1And they took their journey from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came unto the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departing out of the land of Egypt

This is when God gave the commands about the manna He was giving them. He did not give the Ten Commandments until they got to Mt. Sinai.

Exodus 19:1 "In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai. 2) For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount.

It was later on that God came down and gave them the Decalogue.

And they did refrain from other work as commanded by God.

See Exodus 16:23 "And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

Now look at Exodus 16:30 "So the people rested on the seventh day.

You are making claims that this is not true. Why don't you show me by Scripture that it isn't true?

CR

If I am the one writing on assumptions, why is it that you don't refute the clear statements in the Scriptures I asked you about? The 16th chapter of Exodus explains it very clearly. It was only 6 weeks after leaving Egypt that God gave the command and furnished the manna and told them to not do any work or collect any food on the Sabbath. It is also very clearly stated in Scripture that they rested on the seventh day as commanded.

It was another 6 weeks before they even got to the Sinai desert where God later came down from the mountain and gave them the Ten Commandments. The Scriptures are quite clear.

I will wait for you to comment on them rather than claim it is I making the assumptions.

CR

You have stated some correct facts, but drawn an illogical conclusion.

everyone agrees that God (through Moses) began preparing the Jews for the reception of the law before Exodus 20. such does nothing to indicate that the Law was intended for non-Jews or that any of the patriarchs observed the Sabbath.

The Bible does not state that anyone observed the Sabbath prior to Moses. You have quoted Scriptures about Moses which are beside the point.

John

_________________
"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Gal 5:6b

Pastor John C. Blackburn

But you do agree that there is a record of Sabbath observance prior to the giving of the Ten Commandments? Right???

CR

The Sabbath was observed in some manner by the Jewish people in the weeks leading up to the covenant ceremony at Sinai.

I assume you wish to draw some far reaching conclusion? If not , let it be what it is - God began to lead his people into the practice of the Law even before the official ceremony where the covenant was ratified.

John

_________________
"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Gal 5:6b

Pastor John C. Blackburn

Since time of days of the month did not begin except during Exodus the first month of abib, it's impossible to show the actual sabbath; but there are signs that probably tells us it may a sabbath day.

for example: sunset to sunset as sabbath day or giving tithes on sabbath day.

Gen 15:12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not their's, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Gen 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
Gen 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Another example is the unleaven bread during passover and the feast begins on Sabbath day.
Gen 19:3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat

Another example when God ask Abraham to slay his son Isaac, if Jesus died on the cross on Friday afternoon then that next day must be a Sabbath day probably happened to Isaac.

I believe there were signs given to us before Moses / Exodus when is Sabbath day.


< 300 years to go, Amen.

Samesame, what does "< 300 years to go, Amen" mean? Is there something on the calendar I should know about?

Regards.

_________________
All Scripture quotations are New American Standard Bible, unless otherwise indicated.

Thank you for your reply John. All I wanted to do is for you to recognize that I was correct in saying that God gave this day a special holiness and sanctification and it was practiced prior to the giving of the Ten Commandments. That is what Scripture shows and that is what I said from the beginning.

Whether or not we are still under that particular command is the part that is debatable, not when it was given and what it was for.

Do you believe Paul was correct when he said that believers were children of Abraham and thereby we can look forward to receiving the promise made to Abraham and his seed? I believe that is far more important than the Sabbath question...I am looking forward to that day...

CR

I'm really confused. You said

But now you are saying God gave them laws before the Decalogue?
I agree with John, you are presenting a reverse generalization fallacy. Apparently all the Israelites did on Saturdays was bake manna? So when God told them not to do any work in Ex. 20, He was just repeating what He had already told them?
You haven't answered my pointing out that there were a few laws given before the Decalogue, so your argument about the Decalogue being given before the law is false.

_________________
Στηθι εδραιος, ως ακμων τυπτομενος. - Ignatius |II Timothy 4:2| All Scripture is NKJV, unless a translation from the Greek text or otherwise noted.
M.A. Theological Studies (New Testament), Faith Seminary, Tacoma WA
Member, Evangelical Theological Society, North American Patristics Society.
Assistant Editor and contributing author of several published and forthcoming publications.

As much as I would like to impute some meaning to the use of unleavened bread here, I can't find any connection with the Passover meal or any other custom. The symbolism of the unleavened bread was not yet known. It did not take effect until the time of Exodus, some 500 years or more later, after Moses came on the scene. Moses came about 1500 BC and Abraham lived about 2000 BC so I can't say this has anything to do with the Sabbath.

When the Jews were given permission to leave Egypt, they did not have time to wait on bread to rise so they used unleavened bread and that is still how they celebrate the passover and other customs. In fact Matzo soup is very good...

When reading Genesis 18:8 we learn that Abraham's helper had prepared a full course meal and would have had plenty of time to allow the bread to rise and would have used leavened bread. But unleavened bread was prepared for the angelic guests. We don't know exactly what kind of feast Lot offered but the writing tells us he made it with unleavened bread. Abraham's dinner was prepared on the way to Sodom and Lot's meal came after they were there. Perhaps it is simply that Lot's response to the angels was less convicting than Abraham's. It appears Lot worked by himself whereas his wife and two daughters were unaware and not involved in the preparation of the meal.

Sorry but I can't tie this in with the Sabbath.

Cal R.