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In early 2005, I finished scouring the Bible for any hint of detail about the journey that we take from this world to the next. Unfortunately for me I was a King James Only Guy at the time, so I have to start all over again.

Though I don't have any money to spend of luxuries like Professor Obayashi's book 'Death and the Afterlife', a friend recommended that I have a read of Brian McLaren's trilogy titled - 'A New Kind of Christian' , not to be confused with his new book titled - 'A New Kind Of Christianity' , I have read simply oceans of papers about the subject and had numerous discussions about this, and am looking forward to sitting down and reading 'The Great Divorce' by C.S. Lewis, but if you have done a study on this and have something to add that might guide me forward, I would greatly appreciate that?

Sincerely,
Eric J. Sawyer
http://aerycksmusic.wordpress.com

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Eric J. Sawyer
Noises, Doodles and Scribbles.

"the Great Divorce" is very good, but it is more along the lines of "what if?"

For a thorough biblical look at Heaven, and then how imagination might cloth that, I highly recommend Randy Alcorn's "Heaven" ... one of the best out there.

Another good one is the BST's "The doctrine of Heaven and Hell" by Milne.

but there is a lot of questionable stuff out there.

Dinah

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Thanks Dina.

Yes, I know that about Lewis' book, and the one by Peter Kreeft about Huxley, Lewis and Kennedy in a waiting room before the judgement is meant to be a good read as well. I figure that based on how vague so many folks are, it's generally the way many go when endeavouring to explain something which has so many complicated facet to it.

Someone else recommended Alcorn's book, but I don't really have money to afford such luxuries, so I am looking for something which is freely available to the general public.

I recognize Milne, is that perhaps one of the writers who contribute to the Bible.org studies section, for when I saw that name I quickly typed in milne - the doctrine of heaven and hell < and this is what I got. What a wack of stuff to read!!!! Great, I shall busy myself there for a few years.

If you think of anything else which is comparable with Professor Obayashi's book 'Death and the Afterlife', I will welcome that.

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Eric J. Sawyer
Noises, Doodles and Scribbles.

If you go to Randy Alcorn's web site you will also find a lot of free information .... including a lot of questions and answers that came from readers of his book .... lots and lots of good reading.

Dinah

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Dinah,

Randy seems to be looking through a different window, to the one I have been looking through for the last ten years. I spent about 23 years looking at the bright side of the street, but over the last ten years, I have focussed my research on the dark side of the street.

I am looking for something more along these lines ...



You see Dinah, I spent approximately ten years reading every conceivable paper and book, I could get my hands on. Then I commenced scouring the New Testament (not the lazy way, or doing a word search) after which I did the same with the Old Testament (not the lazy way of letting someone else think for me).
I wrote two books, by early 2005, covering the New Testament, BUT being a King James Only person , I saw the scriptures through that filter. I only got free of the KJO bug after I had completed doing the same intensive read and study of the Old Testament, which took me a full year. In early 2008, when I moved to England, I decided to start a blog and go over every passage (somewhere in the vicinity of 700 - 725 passages) and check them with the NET Bible, and the ESV as well as the best possible Commentaries on each passage, thereby check each passage. This became to exhausting, primarily because I was recovering from a thrombosis that I suffered a few months earlier in December 2007.

So I just gave up.

Since then I have mended some, ... Praise the Lord ... I have decided to take the scenic route, but I don't want to deviate into studying about the bright side of the next world, I want to go as far back as I can to the earliest writings about this, no matter how dark and get some background to it, before I begin writing the sober but frightening story of what happens if one does not get to go to the bright side of the next world ( or what Randy and others call 'Heaven' ) in other words the other place, which many mock about, namely 'Hades' ..followed by the Great White Throne Judgement and what follows that, what we know as 'The Lake of Fire'

So, thanks for your second reference to Randy's website, I have bookmarked it for future reading.

Sincerely,
Eric J. Sawyer

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Eric J. Sawyer
Noises, Doodles and Scribbles.

Eric

I think you have confused heaven and hell .... perhaps also this life and the next.

You see, in heaven there is no dark side because there is no darkness in God.

1 John 1:5-7 5 Now this is the gospel message we have heard from him and announce to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him and yet keep on walking in the darkness, we are lying and not practicing the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. Context (NET)

1 Peter 2:9 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people of his own, so that you may proclaim the virtues of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Context (NET)

Revelation 21:22-25 22 Now I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God – the All-Powerful – and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because the glory of God lights it up, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by its light and the kings of the earth will bring their grandeur into it. 25 Its gates will never be closed during the day (and there will be no night there). Context (NET)

Revelation 22:3-5 3 And there will no longer be any curse, and the throne of God and the Lamb will be in the city. His servants will worship him, 4 and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 Night will be no more, and they will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, because the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever. Context (NET)

The doctrine of a light and dark side to God is that of dualism, which puts forward the idea of two equal and opposing powers. But that is not the God of the Bible.

You see, studying the Bible does not make a person a Christian. Christianity is a personal relationship between God and a human being. The Bible is our means of knowing about God, who He is and what He has done. The Bible also tells us that God is most fully revealed in the God-man, Jesus Christ. The marvel of all marvels is that God became a man in Christ.

But that also means, we cannot find a God of our own choosing, or one that suits us .... because the God revealed in the Bible is the only God there is.

I recommended Randy Alcorn's book, because the first half consists of a careful look at all the verses in the Bible that touch on the subject of Heaven.

From my own reading, what is taught is that this world, and our own experience is polluted and deformed by sin, by evil ... both our own and that which comes to us. Also that we have an enemy ... a powerful spiritual being who has rebelled against God, and so is the enemy of God, and everything that God loves.

This evil is the cause of all the 'darkness' we see and experience, it is the ultimate cause of all our suffering and pain. It is the cause of our final enemy, death itself.

That is why all teaching on Heaven is 'light', because no darkness can exist in the presence of God.

The book of Revelation is not easy to understand, because we are not familiar with the apocalyptic genre but what is crystal clear is that when God finally says "Enough!" ... then all that is evil, all that is 'dark' will be forever separated.

That is why there is no darkness in Heaven, nor can there be.

in Christ

Dinah

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My use of metaphors seems to have confused you.



Of course.



Of course.




Of course.



Of course.



Of course!

My area of research is with regard to those are going to end up in the Lake of Fire.

Seeing as Randy does not really got into great depth in regard to this, I shall look elsewhere.

Thanks for trying.
Peace,

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Eric J. Sawyer
Noises, Doodles and Scribbles.

Dinah,

'My area of research is with regard to those who are going to end up in the Lake of Fire', which includes a detailed study of what the major religions (and branches of each ) teach about the journey that those who are evil, take after their life on earth comes to and end ...

Savvy?

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Eric J. Sawyer
Noises, Doodles and Scribbles.

I have my own ideas on heaven and hell which I have not found supported in books.

The problem starts with the objective of earth.

I see earth as the only place where humans can obtain Godly type Love and that is man’s objective so he can Love God and other with all heart, soul, mind, and energy.
After obtaining Love here on other and staying here a while to have the privilege and honor of allowing the Spirit to work through you here on earth and your love grow through use, you go to heaven.

You still have free will in heaven, but there is nothing you even perceive of lacking (like the tree of knowledge), satan is not in heaven to tempt you, and you do not have a sexual body so there is no envy of something others have. Yes, people do come with different portions of Godly type Love (the most power force in all universes since it compels even God), but that is nothing you can be even jealous of since others Love you more than you Love them does not mean you are the lower in that situation.

I do see scripture supporting levels of punishment in hell, but I do not see levels of reward in heaven.

Eric

thank you for the clarification

In that case C.S.Lewis' the Great Divorce is the best I have read ... and Milne in the BST series is good also.

I don't think we are told much in the Bible .... and I don't think the pictures we are given are necessarily to be taken literally. The impression I get when I read them is of a place (or a state) indescribably terrible, which the writer is using word pictures to try and get across.

Definitely not somewhere I ever want to be, or to have anyone I love (or indeed anyone at all) to ever be.

in Christ

Dinah

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My pleasure, thanks.



I have listened to it quite a few times, but after the first 10 or so minutes I was unable to concentrate, but last night (early morning) I got all the way through and it is FABULOUS. I have to listen to it again. The part where the one person just goes on and on and on and on, until the angel eventually disappears, ...... I was not sure how much more of the yapping I could take ... but as usual Lewis seems to know just how far to go before you feel like you want to jump into the story and ...



Earlier on in this thread, I gave a link to what I thought was Milne, but I could not find anything like that. Where do I find this series please



I am sure that many of the passages which I found during my research, and my general preconceptions, are going to change by the time I am done.



I agree.

Thanks for the interaction.

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Eric J. Sawyer
Noises, Doodles and Scribbles.

Eric

it is the Bible Speaks Today series ..... Amazon is probably the best option as they often have second hand copies at very reasonable prices .....

I don't know of anywhere you can access them on-line .... someone else might know.

in Christ

Dinah

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