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Matthew 24:36, very familiar verse. Then in the book of Daniel there are many numbers given to figure out the end time. If one reads Daniel 8:17; 11:27, 29, 35; and Habakkuk 2:3: I believe these verses contradicts what is being applied in Matthew 24:36.

I was wondering if Noah gave the time appointed(?) for the coming of the flood except they ignored his message.

Just to ponder about.



< 300 years to go, Amen.

From my reading, Noah was not given the day nor the hour. Jesus said; Just as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be when the Son of man comes. He also said that no one knows when except the Father, not even the Son. Daniel can point us to a general time. Using his prophecy; Israel becoming a nation can be predicted, (some believe to the day), but we are only given that the generation that sees that happen will see the return, be it the rapture if one is a pretriber, or the second coming if a post-triber.

Grace and Peace
Robert

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There is no time prophecy that went past 1844 at the end of the 2300 years of Daniel 8:14. At the stoning of Stephen the gospel went to the gentiles and the Jewish dispensation was over. God does not deal with Israel as a nation any longer and the so-called temple in Jerusalem will not be rebuilt; that already happened when the captives came out of Babylon around 600BC and Nehemiah built that temple. There is no secret rapture either.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he comes with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.(AKJV) All texts.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Why are the unsaved mourning? because they are unprepared and only have a moment before they are all struck dead by the brightness of His coming.

Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Don't stop at verse 30 of Mathew, but look also at at Mat 24:34-44 which clearly states that the hour is unknown, which also means that the prophecy of Israel is incomplete.
What of the prophetic picture given in Rev 3:10. Some will be relieved of having to go through the tribulation. Hence being caught up as Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and described again in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55.

Not all shall agree about the timing of Being "caught up" which in Latin is Raptura, which is of little importance. What Jesus was imparting is that we should be ready regardless of when he comes. The servant is not to be idle until the Master comes, but be ready, anticipating the Master's return. The most important, is place our faith in Jesus, and out of love, not duty, lest we should boast, keep his commands which are easy.

Grace and Peace
Robert

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I think you have it right guykickinit, in that the point is to be ready.

So often we look so closely at the details that we lose the real point.

My dad is retired from an extraordinary ministry career. He always taught me that pretrib or posttrib are less important than pantrib. God ultimately wins, and whatever happens it will all pan out in the end!

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Hi Robert,
I'm fully aware of all of Matt. 24, including vss. 34-44, and that we do not know the hour. And Robert, please explain this:"which also means that the prophecy of Israel is incomplete." If you would be so kind. I'll give quick, brief analysis of these verses.

All texts below in the AKJV.

Mat 24:34 Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.(AKJV)

In Matthew 23:36 of course "this generation" refers to that of the apostles then as Jesus proceeds to forecast the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70. however, in Matt. 24:34 Jesus refers to vss. 27-51 of the same chapter that foretell the 2nd coming.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Self-Explanatory.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Same thing.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
People who don't watch will be caught un-prepared. Much of the world will be unbelievers and caught up in spiritualism

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
This is not a secret rapture. when Christ comes the saints will be resurrected and the living saint changed to immortality. The ones here who are left here will be all struck dead.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said to him, Where, Lord? And he said to them, Wherever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

The disciples are asking about the ones that are left and Jesus tells them that they are struck dead and the vultures come to the bodies.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for you know not what hour your Lord does come.
Self-expalnatory.

Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the manager of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Mat 24:44 Therefore be you also ready: for in such an hour as you think not the Son of man comes.
Absolutely!

blessings,
Steve

Steve,

Start with Ezekiel 38 concerning Israel, But that should really be a different thread.

I don't think I ever read anywhere, anything, about a SECRET rapture. There is no secret, it is written as plain as day for all to see that have eyes to see and ears to hear. There will be those left that will survive the great tribulation as well and be of the other nations that are forced to submit to the king when he sets up his kingdom in the New Jerusalem for a millennial reign. But again that could also be an entire thread and I believe there is one on the millennial reign.

I do look forward to his coming again though. Fortunately, God is too amazing for me to understand entirely and I can focus more on being ready for his coming and less on prophecy. I can only speculate using a combination of several of the verses you pointed out along with the prophets of old and Revelation. As long as it's among the 66/40 I'm happy to speculate and look forward to his coming and seeing the things described in John's vision.

Grace and peace
Robert

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Hi Robert,

After 1798, more and more light has been shed on the prophecies and I can tell you personally what a blessing it is to study them and know for sure its the real deal. Those beasts in Daniel 7, 8, 9 and onwards, and the ones in Revelation represent kingdoms, nations and powers.

Generally, the best way to start is in Daniel 2 with King Nebuchadnezzar dream of a great metal man that represents the 4 succeeding world kingdoms in order which is Babylon, the head of gold,
Dan 2:31 You, O king, saw, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before you; and the form thereof was terrible.(KJV)
Dan 2:32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
Dan 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
Dan 2:34 You saw till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image on his feet that were of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces.The stone cut out without hands represents the coming of Christ smashing the existing world kingdoms.
Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. The great mountain is the new earth.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Here's something I find stunning: the second kingdom to arise after Babylon was Medio-Persia represented by the chest and arms of silver on the metal man. The night that Babylon was taken, King Belshazzar was throwing a drunken party using the golden cups and chalices taken from the Jews when they took Jerusalem in the 70 year captivity foretold by Jeremiah and Isaiah. "Jer 25:12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, said the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.
Anyway you may have heard the story of the handwriting on the wall that night when they were having the drunken partyn and a hand appeared writing "you are weighed in the balances and found wanting." And of course they had to get Daniel to read it.
Dan 5:28 PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.
Dan 5:29 Then commanded Belshazzar, and they clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom.
Dan 5:30 In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain.
Dan 5:31 And Darius the Median took the kingdom, being about threescore and two years old.

What history shows is that night whilst thy were reveling, the combined armies of Darius the Mede, and Cyrus the Persian, diverted the river Euphrates out of its course because it ran right under and through the great walls of Babylon and the army marched right down the riverbed and took the city by complete surprise.
Now the amazing part is that 150 years before that God, through the prophet Isaiah, called Cyrus by name even and told what he Cyrus would do.

Isa 44:27 That said to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up your rivers:

Isa 44:28 That said of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, You shall be built; and to the temple, Your foundation shall be laid.

The second part refers to a bit later when the 70 years are up and Cyrus decreed the people of God to go back home and re-build their temple. I want to make th point too that some of these prophecies about the re-building of th last temple are taken out of context to try and say the temple will yet be re-built in Jerusalem by the anti-Christ which is all baloney.

Isa 45:1 Thus said the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
this refers again back to that fateful night as gates were not even locked (inner gates) as the army marched doen the riverbed, under the walls, and then through the unlocked gates.

Isa 45:2 I will go before you, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
God is saying here that He rules in the kingdoms of men, and it is He that gave the city to the conquering armies.

Isa 45:3 And I will give you the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that I, the LORD, which call you by your name. The fabulous riches of Babylon were now the Medes and the Persians.

An amazing story and when a person can teach all of Daniel 2 which continues with the next kingdom; (it can and has brought a great many people to God and the Bible); then Greece, which is the belly and thighs of brass on the great metal image and then the legs of iron is pagan Rome continuing to the ten toes which are the ten tribes that became the European nations, and it gets even more amazing when God says the ten toes mixed with clay and iron "shall not clave one to another:"

Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Dan 2:43 And whereas you saw iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not join one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

This gives a several hundred years picture of Europe as several times armies (like Hitler) tried to unite Europe but God had said no around 600BC.

not only being prepared, but helping others recieve and prepare for his return

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Robert, I'm afraid you are misinformed and your quote here: "There will be those left that will survive the great tribulation as well and be of the other nations that are forced to submit to the king when he sets up his kingdom in the New Jerusalem for a millennial reign."

Please allow me to shed some light here. At the second coming of Christ begins the 1000 years, or the millennium. Jesus will come for His church as promised, and as I already discussed, the wicked are struck dead at his coming. In other words the teachings that says there will be another 7 years after Christ comes; or even another 1000 years so as to give a "second chance" to accept Jesus, are both false. The devil puts forth these lies so that sinners will delay (or think to delay) coming to Christ. What happens here is simply that the 70 weeks of years in Daniel is misapplied; in particular the last week.

But first, I think all serious students should know these prophecies here an how they were fulfilled.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

This amounts to 490 years. (see on Eze.4:6. and Num. 14:34: day for a year) The 70 weeks actually terminates at AD 34, at the stoning of Stephen when then the Gospel went to the gentiles.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The beginning point is 457 BC, in which this verse gives us and we find that here:
Ezr 7:8 And he came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which was in the seventh year of the king.
Ezr 7:9 For on the first day of the first month began he to go up from Babylon, and on the first day of the fifth month came he to Jerusalem, according to the good hand of his God on him.

Ezr 7:11 Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the LORD, and of his statutes to Israel.
Ezr 7:12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, to Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.
Ezr 7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with you.

69 weeks (483 years) takes us up to AD27 at the beginning of Jesus' ministry. " The street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times" .Some interpreters attach special significance to the rebuilding of Jerusalem during the time, but scant historical evidence exists from Artaxerxes to Alexander. But this seems to me to refer to that time of rebuilding.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Jesus is cut off, meaning that He did not boot the Romans out and put Himself on the throne. And after 62 weeks means just that, as sometime after.The LXX reads "king of nations" for "people of the prince" the marginal reading in some Bibles, "the Jews" is not supported by the Hebrew. Since the gospel went out to the gentiles in AD34, it could refer to the Romans (don't hold me to this one though).The city and the sanctuary refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70


Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is the 70th week of 7 years, which some rip right off and apply it to "seven years of tribulation" after Christ comes in which they erroneously think there's another chance at salvation, which is quite problematic when one is dead. In the midst of the week, 3 and half years later in AD 31, the Messiah was hung on the cross. Then in AD 34 Stephen was stoned, fully ending the Jewish dispensation.the oblation ceased at the moment the veil in the temple ripped from top to bottom, from heaven to earth. the rest of the verse mostly speaks to AD 70, and the abomination of desolation (stand in the Holy Place) When the Romans overran and totally destroyed the last temple; the one built at the starting point of 457BC.

Continued later, longer studies are hard when you only have 6000 characters.

Indeed, we are entrusted, and even commanded to do so. There is a Christian band that sings "lifesong", and how appropriate; how our life, or the way we live sets the example of Christ in us. Our very lives should cause people to wonder, and ask "What is it about you?". They should see the light of Christ exuding from us. A great way to be able to broach the gospel and help someone get ready for his return. I am reminded of the parable of the talents. When I stand before him, I want to hear the words "good and faithful servant".

The Original Question also asked about Hab 2:3 vs. Mat 24:36. After reading Hab, I read the footnotes in my NIV study bible. It says concerning the word revelation to see 1 Chronicles 17:15 and Pro 29:18 and note. "The Hebrew for this word refers specifically to a Prophet's vision." (quoted from NIV study notes) The verse in Hab is referring to the Babylonians rather than end times. I looked at other versions such as ESV, ASB, and KJV, which used the word "vision" not revelation. But still focusing on the fall of Babylon in 539 BC, 66 years after Hab's vision. A good reason for the difference between the 2 verses; they speak of different events.

Grace and Peace
Robert

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'Well, now. I disagree. Scripture cannot be broken and there is no contradictions here-or anywhere except for some minor details about some numbers in Matthew (I think) that escapes me now. I note that you do not explain your reasoning; you just toss out some texts.When Christ says "no man knows the day or hour,' He means what He says. Anything else is really saying that he lied. When I have a plain,"Thus saith the LORD," that settles it for me every time.

Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Gabriel just says that the vision Daniel received in verse one and after verse 17 will be at the time of the end. Since the 2300 years ended in 1844 and the time of the end is considered 1798 by most Bible expositors including this one; it merely says these things happen over a few hundred years. Martin Luther taught and I agree that the little horn power is papal Rome, which will continue to be a major player until the second coming of Jesus Christ.

No where in the Bible is any prophecy that tells the day and the hour of the LORD's return.

Somewhere around 16th to 19th century most of the countries in the world were searching the coming of Christ or the end time. William Miller came out with 1844 as the coming of Christ but 1844 came and pass away. It never happened...CLOSED! Today, that Jesus is in the Most Holy Place and we are under probation and when he is finished then he will come. That was my understanding.

Now, most churches don't want to assigned dates of his coming probably due to making embarassing wrong prediction. Again, there is this 2012 end time because the Mayans calendar stop in the year 2012.

What I am trying to compare is about Matt 24:36 versus in the book of Daniel about what is being said mainly "time appointed" or "time of the end"?

Time appointed to me meant there is a time assigned when Christ comes again or time of the end meant to me there will be an end time assigned. There are many numbers mentioned in the book of Daniel, Dan 12:11-12; 8:14; 9:24-27.

It's impossible to predict the exact day and hour of Jesus coming like October 22, 1844 but Numbers 14:34 use day as year or hour can be use as length of time: 24 hours as a day; Revelation 8:1.

No one knows when Christ was born and definitely not in December but someone gave it a date.

If one reads Matthew 24:14 then ask yourself When will that be? Then the answer can be found in Matthew 24:15 reflects back to Daniel 8 and 12.

Some of us know Jesus is coming again and were being told just wait and be ready but somehow in Matthew 24:42 tells me diffferently in Matthew 24:43 with "But" in question?

Then we have Joel 2:28-29?


Just wondering.

Just so you know, Steve is no longer with us, so he won't be responding.

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