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Hi everyone,

I am doing a Bible training in a town nearby and find it quite interesting. This Bible school is set up very flexible, as it doesn't have a firm building, but uses the rooms of local churches to teach and hold meetings. Topics are for instance "History of the Church", "Authority of the Believer", "Spiritual Growth" and many others. For lay-people who don't have the possibility to leave their jobs in order to go to a Bible-Center for one or two years, this is a really good possibility to get some teaching in connection with practical exercises in churches or Christian Ministries, especially when you take it seriously and make the best out of it.

This month we studied the topic of biblical prayer. I find the material good with really lots of papers on prayer. But there is one thing, which I find a bit weird. They clearly say that true New Testament believers are not to pray to Jesus, but to the heavenly Father "in Jesus' name!" only.

I was used to pray to Jesus only all my life, because He is the one who saved me and He is the one who I can imagine in front of my inner eyes. After a closer look to the Bible I must admit that there are only few - if at all - scriptures in the New Testament which give the idea that the Early Church prayed to Jesus, but I think, there are two:

Mt 18:19-20: He, Jesus, is in the midst of two or three, who gather in His name.
2 Tim 2:22: They called upon the "Lord" (=kyrios, which is in most cases a term for Jesus, the Son of God) with pure hearts.

What do you think? Is it really wrong to pray to Jesus, our Saviour? Should we only pray to our heavenly Father in Jesus' name?

Thanks in advance,

Tom

I think that they are taking some things out of context. What verse do they use for saying we pray only to the father but in Jesus name.

John 14:12-14 "13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." NIV
1 Tim 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," NIV

It is true the Lord's Prayer, (Matt. 6:9-13) but this is only a model prayer or a template in a sense. It does not say we pray to the Father only and yet since God is a trinity it may be simply splitting hairs. There are times when I pray I use Jesus' name and Father interchangeably.

I've just found two more evidences that New Testament believers prayed to Jesus:

Acts 9:10-14: Ananias is speaking to Jesus, that Saulus has power from the high priests that he can bind all that call upon His name (Jesus).
1 Cor 1:2: The saints call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in all places.

These are New Testament scriptures, and I think the verb "call" means the same as "pray to".

Tom

Actually the words for call and pray are two different words in the Greek but the word call has a broad meaning and can be interpreted as pray in some contexts.

Have you ever read any books by E.M. Bounds? He wrote 8 books on prayer and a few years ago it was Zondervan who put them all into one volume. He was a chaplain in the Civil War and was pastor of a church in the South after the war. His works are considered to be classics on prayer.

Yes, you are right. I own "The Englishman's Greek Concordance of the New Testament" by George Wigram, which contains all verses of all words, and when I look at the word "pray", it lists several Greek verbs and each verb has pages full of verses. If you want to get through all of them you probably need days or weeks.



No, I haven't heard of Mr. Bounds yet. But this gives me a good clue: "Pastor" means "Shepherd" of the sheep. Isn't Jesus the great "good Shepherd"? A Shepherd, to whom the sheep can't go and talk to (pray to), can't be a useful shepherd. So, Jesus, my Shepherd, is my first address, when I am in danger, or when I have sorrows, or when I am happy about anything. The term Shepherd implicates communication with the sheep, and prayer is communication with God. And Jesus is together with Hs Father and the Holy Spirit God.

When you pray to God, you pray to father, son, and holy spirit. The trinity isn't a bureaucracy, and you don't need to know the three digit extension in order to skip over a long, tedious voice menu.

Yes, Jesus did not pray to Jesus, and He did not model praying to Jesus for us. But I don't think we should draw a lot of inferences from that.

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Not all those who wander are lost.

A nice and original thought, thanks!

Hear o Israel, the Lord is our God, the lord is one (flesh) What role does God the father play in Christianity? God said, my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. If Jesus reigns on earth will father God remain in Heaven and doing what? There is nothing you can do in secret that is not known, there is not even anything you can think that is not known, God knows all our thoughts. We don't have to pray out loud or in anybodies name to be heard, we pray to God.

As Christians we believe in the Trinity - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Christianity is the fulfillment of the Jewish religion. When Jesus came, lived and died for our sins He was the union of God and man. We see how he prayed and addressed God as Father. Besides prayer, there are a number of incidents in which Jesus addresses God as Father.

We pray to God and we are heard because of what Jesus has done for us. He acts as the High Priest for us and due to his finished work on the cross we have access to the Holy of Holies through him.
1 Tim 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." NIV
Heb 9:15 "For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance-now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant." NIV
Heb 12:24 "Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel." NIV

Dear Gary, I thought the Pope was the high priest! Ez. 13:22 (you have) strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life.

sueblange ... you thought wrong! The Pope is the Bishop of Rome, leader of the Catholic Church NOT the High Priest ... Jesus is our one and only High Priest, as explained especially in the book of Hebrews in the New Testament.

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Avid Reader

“Lord, in my zeal for love of truth, let me not forget the truth about love.” - Thomas Aquinas
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Well stated avidreader. The pope represents only the Catholic denomination and outside of the Catholic denomination there are many Protestant groups who are either independent or grouped by conventions or fellowships who do not acknowledge the pope as their head.

Are you applying Ez. 13:22 to Christianity?

Who do yiou think Yeshua was, rom the perspective of the new testament AND old testament?