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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:59 am 
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According to the account of the fall in Genesis Eve took fruit from the forbidden tree but nowhere does it say it was an apple. The word apple is used 7 times in the Bible and all in the OT. It is referred to as the apple of his eye four times, twice in the Song of Solomon as a meeting place and once in Zechariah.

John Bunyan (1628-1688) referred to the apple that Eve took several times in his "Pilgrim's Progress" (first published 1678).

Where did this idea of an apple come from - we are told nowhere, that I am aware of, that the forbidden fruit was an apple.

I looked in I.S.B.E. and it said nothing about the apple being the forbidden fruit that Eve took and ate of when tempted.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:20 pm 
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GaryM wrote:
According to the account of the fall in Genesis Eve took fruit from the forbidden tree but nowhere does it say it was an apple. The word apple is used 7 times in the Bible and all in the OT. It is referred to as the apple of his eye four times, twice in the Song of Solomon as a meeting place and once in Zechariah.



You are correct. The bible no where identifies what kind of fruit was produced by the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

That being said, I think your list of verses using the word "Apple" is likely incorrect. The phrase "apple of the eye" is an English idiom that doesn't quite translate that way in Hebrew.

Here is a list of verses that do contain the word "Apple(s)." Note some are names (i.e. like we have a town up north called "Apple Hill" and are transliterated rather than translated. Joshua 17:8 is questionable i.e. is it "the land of Tapuach" or "the land of Apples" i.e. it would not be unusual for a town called "apples" to be found in a region known for growing apples.

Joshua 12:17 מֶ֤לֶךְ תַּפּ֙וּחַ֙ אֶחָ֔ד מֶ֥לֶךְ חֵ֖פֶר אֶחָֽד׃
Joshua 15:34 וְזָנ֙וֹחַ֙ וְעֵ֣ין גַּנִּ֔ים תַּפּ֖וּחַ וְהָעֵינָֽם׃
Joshua 16:8 מִתַּפּ֜וּחַ יֵלֵ֙ךְ הַגְּב֥וּל יָ֙מָּה֙ נַ֣חַל קָנָ֔ה וְהָי֥וּ תֹצְאֹתָ֖יו הַיָּ֑מָּה זֹ֗את נַחֲלַ֛ת מַטֵּ֥ה בְנֵי־אֶפְרַ֖יִם לְמִשְׁפְּחֹתָֽם׃
Joshua 17:8 לִמְנַשֶּׁ֕ה הָיְתָ֖ה אֶ֣רֶץ תַּפּ֑וּחַ וְתַפּ֛וּחַ אֶל־גְּב֥וּל מְנַשֶּׁ֖ה לִבְנֵ֥י אֶפְרָֽיִם׃
1 Chronicles 2:43 וּבְנֵ֖י חֶבְר֑וֹן קֹ֥רַח וְתַפֻּ֖חַ וְרֶ֥קֶם וָשָֽׁמַע׃
Proverbs 25:11 תַּפּוּחֵ֣י זָ֭הָב בְּמַשְׂכִּיּ֥וֹת כָּ֑סֶף דָּ֜בָ֗ר דָּבֻ֥ר עַל־אָפְנָֽיו׃
Song of Solomon 2:3 כְּתַפּ֙וּחַ֙ בַּעֲצֵ֣י הַיַּ֔עַר כֵּ֥ן דּוֹדִ֖י בֵּ֣ין הַבָּנִ֑ים בְּצִלּוֹ֙ חִמַּ֣דְתִּי וְיָשַׁ֔בְתִּי וּפִרְי֖וֹ מָת֥וֹק לְחִכִּֽי׃
Song of Solomon 2:5 סַמְּכ֙וּנִי֙ בָּֽאֲשִׁישׁ֔וֹת רַפְּד֖וּנִי בַּתַּפּוּחִ֑ים כִּי־חוֹלַ֥ת אַהֲבָ֖ה אָֽנִי׃
Song of Solomon 7:9 אָמַ֙רְתִּי֙ אֶעֱלֶ֣ה בְתָמָ֔ר אֹֽחֲזָ֖ה בְּסַנְסִנָּ֑יו וְיִֽהְיוּ־נָ֤א שָׁדַ֙יִךְ֙ כְּאֶשְׁכְּל֣וֹת הַגֶּ֔פֶן וְרֵ֥יחַ אַפֵּ֖ךְ כַּתַּפּוּחִֽים׃
Song of Solomon 8:5 מִ֣י זֹ֗את עֹלָה֙ מִן־הַמִּדְבָּ֔ר מִתְרַפֶּ֖קֶת עַל־דּוֹדָ֑הּ תַּ֤חַת הַתַּפּ֙וּחַ֙ עֽוֹרַרְתִּ֔יךָ שָׁ֚מָּה חִבְּלַ֣תְךָ אִמֶּ֔ךָ שָׁ֖מָּה חִבְּלָ֥ה יְלָדַֽתְךָ׃
Joel 1:12 הַגֶּ֣פֶן הוֹבִ֔ישָׁה וְהַתְּאֵנָ֖ה אֻמְלָ֑לָה רִמּ֞וֹן גַּם־תָּמָ֣ר וְתַפּ֗וּחַ כָּל־עֲצֵ֤י הַשָּׂדֶה֙ יָבֵ֔שׁוּ כִּֽי־הֹבִ֥ישׁ שָׂשׂ֖וֹן מִן־בְּנֵ֥י אָדָֽם׃ ס


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Different traditions have viewed the forbidden fruit in Genesis 2-3 in various ways. Early rabbinic views of the fruit included the fig, grape, citron, wheat, and carob. The tomato, being believed to be a poisonous fruit, was at one time a candidate among European Christians. Early Christian scholars may have thought the forbidden fruit was the apple due to a misunderstanding of, or a pun on the Latin mălum (meaning "evil") with the Latin mālum (meaning "apple"). The Latin Vulgate described the tree in Genesis 2:17 as de ligno autem scientiae boni et mali ("but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil"), where mali is the genitive of malum. Different views of the forbidden fruit apparently persisted among various groups for some time, but after Milton explicitly described the fruit as an apple in his Areopagitica (1644) it became the de facto choice in popular Christian thought. I've read that many modern scholars think the text had the pomegranate in view, but I couldn't tell you who they are.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:46 pm 
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Great reply Cale...it was what I was going to state when I saw the OP (but not nearly so erudite and elegant :wink: ) and Benelchi has given a great reply to the use "apple of X eye". All I would personally add to this discussion is to say that the attempts to name a fruit are all attempts at historicizing something not intended to be historicized (IMO). I am not suggesting that this account did not happen, but that it has not really been passed on to historicize such a matter as the specific scientifically identifiable fruit eaten. In fact, I would say the text is very specifically avoiding such a thing by its manner of presentation, but, hey, that's just my reading of the text. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:45 pm 
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I have heard that in the past, many thought the forbidden fruit was the strawberry because it is the only fruit that has the seed grow on the outside of the fruit. Just what I heard, I don't know if either is true.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:13 pm 
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tsnody2001 wrote:
I have heard that in the past, many thought the forbidden fruit was the strawberry because it is the only fruit that has the seed grow on the outside of the fruit. Just what I heard, I don't know if either is true.



I think that is one we can rule out. Strawberries don't grow on trees of any kind.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:41 am 
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I think the forbidden fruit is the bad intent or fruit of our carnal mind which is over grown tree of knowledge of good and evil. Romans 8:5-8

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:36 am 
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I saw an episode of Rick Steves' Europe last night, that was set in Paris. The camera briefly panned over the entrance to Notre Dame de Paris. There's a depiction in bas relief of Eve sharing the fruit with Adam. The fruit was certainly apple shaped, but I didn't get a close look.

Just because an artisan made it look like an apple doesn't mean that it was an apple. It doesn't even mean that the artisan thought it was an apple.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:31 am 
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Thank you for your responses - thank you Gideon for your response it was very well thought out and written.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Brother Gary M : Shalom and Excellant Post !!! Brother Belechi ; Shalom excellant post !!! Jeru -( Means City of David , Mount Zion !!! ) Salem - ( Means City of Peace - Melchisidec - King of Salem ) Jerusalem the Apple of God*s Eye !!! The " Apple " was used as the TRUTH , but is Not !!! The Book of Enoch - Ethiopean speaks of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil as a Vine or Grape !!! I am Not sure if this is authentic , But i Know it was Not an Apple ; after Adam and Eve Ate of this Tree , they saw that they were Naked ... and sewed Fig Leaves to cover their Nakedness - Gen. C. 2 - 3 All ( The Fig Tree whitered by Jesus ??? Mark 11 : 12 - 14 , 20 - 22 ) !!! Bless everyone that posted , Praise the Lord amen


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:43 pm 
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OOppss Sorry Brother Belelchi !!! Much Better !!!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:41 am 
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Genesis certainly does not associate the forbidden fruit with an apple. When Christians started to represent the biblical stories in their paintings and sculptures that the forbidden fruit became an apple, because artists choose a fruit that almost all people were familiar with. Today many people see the forbidden fruit as a metaphor and ignore that it refers to a change in the human diet. This is because they ignore that Adam and Eve were vegetarians and because they assumed the forbidden fruit had been an apple. There being nothing wrong with eating an apple, those that studied Genesis no longer wondered why it had been forbiddeen and therefore began to see the expulsion from paradise as the fair punishment for disobeying God.
To discover the secrets in the Bible it is essential to question God (why did he give one dietary law to Adam and Eve and another to Noah) and become aware of the principle of cause and effect. The biggest secret in the Bible is what the forbidden fruit refers to. Since in the days of paradise there were no other prohibitions, staying away from the forbidden fruit was enough to safeguard harmony. With harmony requiring a good perception of reality (because only then can we learn everything there is to learn from our experiences), the forbidden fruit obviously damaged mankind’s perception of reality. Therefore, we can wonder whether it refers to drugs, since they alter our perception of reality, thus making us pay more attention to what we want than to how we obtain it, and that is perhaps the origin of all evil.
There are trees with fruits that can be regarded drugs. This is, for instance, the case of the strawberry tree -Arbutus Unedo in Latin- which is rather common in the area around the Mediterranean. Its fruits ferment while they are still on the tree and therefore contain alcohol. Rather peculiar about these little red fruits is that they look a bit like strawberries and, just like them, they don’t hold seeds. That characteristic is significant because in the first dietary law God says: “Behold, I have given you all seed-bearing plants that are upon the face of the whole earth, as well as every tree that bears fruit that holds seeds, this will be your food”


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:16 pm 
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The forbidden fruit most definitely does not refer to "drugs" or any contemporary plant which one may try to locate. If it may mean anything for us today, it is (in my reading) the striving to fulfill one's appetites against the freedom and blessings of God given to enjoy creation. It belongs to present humanities' penchant to strive for what is withheld and what is commanded against.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:28 pm 
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autodidact wrote:
To discover the secrets in the Bible it is essential to question God (why did he give one dietary law to Adam and Eve and another to Noah) and become aware of the principle of cause and effect
No -- James 1:5

autodidact wrote:
The biggest secret in the Bible is what the forbidden fruit refers to
seriously? -- answering "why?" to Rom. 5:8 would lead to a more edifying use of your time -- all the mysteries of the Bible that we need to know have been Revealed by God -- we have a few examples of unknowns but these are not needed in this life

rather that pass off unsubstantiated conjecture, best we should ponder Lev. 19:2


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