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Men,

We have a high calling as men. This is not a job for little boys and especially those whose are little boy and don't have the Holy Spirit living alive inside of them.

As I am learning to become a man I really mess up. No. Really. I mess up...bad. I will admit that as I am going through the process of becoming sober from looking at porn that I have messed up. My wife and I had an understanding that if I messed up and looked at anything or "acted out" that I would tell her. This happened a few weeks ago and I had to tell her. It took me a week to get up the courage but it all came out.

What happened in that moment that I messed up? At the moment it happened my wife felt it. Our whole house felt it. That night and all the days after until I told her did not go well. Why? Because I allowed the enemy back into our house. Not to possess it but to come in. They didn't own the house or us but they were allowed in to persuade us and tempt us.

I did that to my family.

I do not love my wife if I continue this behavior. If week after week I do things that allow the enemy an entrance into our lives then I am not doing what God called me to be. In fact, I am doing the opposite. I am teaming up with satan.

When you put your hands on your girlfriend for your pleasure, you don't love her. Do her a favor and break up with her.

If you are out of work, are a healthy guy but you are not seeking a job, you do not love your wife.

When you get angry and yell at your wife, you are confirming the fact that you don't love her. Repent. Ask for forgiveness and spend the rest of your marriage making it up to her.

If you have negative nicknames for her, you don't love her.

Do you ever give her a look that is intimidated like I did? Like you are saying "Shut up. I can squash you". You don't love her.

I'm right there with you guys. But we can become real men if we resist these demonic activities through repentance and reliance on the Holy Spirit. We are the head of the home and this does not mean that we can be a bully.

If some of these things describe you, do whatever you can do to get help. Get into a group of mature believers and confess. Travel as far as you need to join a group. Spend money on a counselor. Confess to your pastor. Don't stop striving towards righteousness even to the point of shedding blood.

This is serious. Take it seriously. You can do it!

MensBattlePlan

lol

the guy who got girlfriend for pleasure should marry her! that's wld be Biblical , if he breaks up that would be adultery.

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Hear, O Israel: The Lord our G-d, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

In a similar fashion, the last time that I had a major mess-up concerning porn, my wife was aware that something was "off" in me. The seconds before and after I viewed this stuff, because it had been so long previously, was terrible, I mean really terrible. I sensed that I was throwing away almost 20 years of discipleship. Like I was on a precipice about to make a disastrous mistake. And in those first few moments, when I was searching for the most hardcore images I could find, I felt cut-off. Isolated from my heavenly Father. Not only did I feel cut-off, I felt filthy. Like I needed a two week shower.

I was in a position of leadership at the church we attended. That following Sunday was, quite possibly, the worst feeling I had ever felt. I felt like such a hypocrite. And all the judgments I had against those who were struggling with sin in their lives, truly filled me with self-loathing, grief, and shame. I thought I could stop on my own. What a fool I was to believe that lie from the depths of hell.

It went on this way for weeks, until my wife found a video and some of the pictures which I had downloaded off the internet. The precipice, that sense that I had when I chose to go down this road, looked so far away now. She confronted me, and the lies I fabricated were transparent to her. She told me to call my pastor, and tell him.

Clearly this woman was out of her mind. That was my initial reaction anyways. Where I got the courage from to do as she said, is today so clear, I can only tell you it was the love, grace and mercy of God the Father that drew me back, clearly convicted by the Holy Spirit, about how shabbily I had treated the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I loved my pastor, more than my own blood relative. He came over, and we had "a time of fellowship." I has half expecting him to say, "OK, so here's what you have to do." But much to my surprise, and because of his many years in ministry, he said, "So what are you going to do about it?"

He knew me well enough to know that I would have a difficult time accepting responsibility for the situation which I then found myself in. That was after several hours of talking. Because I had been a Christian for almost 20 years by then, (a word on that at a later time) he knew (my pastor that is) I knew what I had to do in order to make things right again. Right between God and me, right between my wife and I, right between the church and I. (By this time I was on the Pastors Advisory Council, sort of equivalent to the Board of Elders).

It was some of the hardest things I had to do. I resigned from the board, apologized to the rest of the council, apologized to the congregation (I was also one of the worship leaders) and for the next eighteen months I sat in the congregation.

When I went to the men's bible study that week, we were told that we would be doing something different, my pastor pulled out a case of books entitled, Breaking Free by Russell Willingham, subtitled Understanding Sexual Addiction & the Healing Power of Jesus.

That was a turning point. At first, I went to group, in denial of course, with the attitude that the book was all horse hockey. That book gotten written in a lot, and now reflects my state of mind while going through this.

By the way, I just grabbed my copy off the bookshelf, to be sure I accurately indicate both how I felt and acted, and what the author said that allowed the Holy Spirit to touch me in the way He did.

The first week, I hadn't done any of the reading, my book was bare. The second week, I did the reading, then went back to read the first chapter as well... all because of two lists in the second chapter.

List 1 - Signs of Sexual Addiction

Age-inappropriate behavior
Intense reactions in response to minimal stress
Frequency of symptoms
Degree of social disruption produced by symptoms
Inner suffering
Rigidity and persistence of the symptoms
Physical damage

Any degree of identification* with this list should cause great concern.

*Identification is a process whereby the subject assimilates an aspect, property, or attribute of the other and is transformed, wholly or partially, after the model the other provides.

And the part that touched me? Was this:
List 2 - Sexual Addiction Defined

Addiction is an obsessive-compulsive relationship with a
person, object or experience for the purpose of sexual
gratification.
Whatever the addictive behavior, it is damaging spiritually.
The person has repeatedly attempted to stop.
Two things drive the addiction:

an inadequate spiritually
and unmet childhood needs
The behavior starts in pre-adolescence.
The behavior tend to shape the orientation and personality
Recovery is possible only with outside intervention.
Recovery is only possible with divine assistance.

I wasn't surprised since I have an addictive personality, I can become addicted to anything!

It also took almost a year abstaining from the internet, eighteen months removed from ministry, hours of reading and study, hours and hours of prayer, and accountability to people whom I respect and agreed to assist me in this. A lot less time than it took me to deal with my alcoholism. (before Christ.)

for the addict there is a way out. In the eighties a crop of Christian 12 step recovery groups sprang up. Based upon AA's twelve steps. Whether or not they still exist I don't know. But here is a Christian 12 Step Program that would work. Provided we Christians, as a group and individuals, can step back and see that it is more than a moral issue.

I will agree that there is a moral component to this, but that's the stuff of another thread. (notice step 4)

See next post for 12 steps

_________________
MikeC1956
Asst Admin

know that your sin will find you out. Numbers 32:23b NET

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fides quarens intellectum, credo ut intelligam
faith seeking knowledge, believe to understand

all quotations are by bible translation indicated.

I usually don't do this, so please forgive for posting twice in a row. This is the text that would have violated the 6000 character limit.

The twelve steps to freedom from sexual addiction for.

1. We admitted we were powerless over addictive sexual behavior
- that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could
restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the
care of God as we understood God.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being
the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects
of character.

7. Humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing
to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible,
except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong
promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious
contact with God as we understood God, praying only for knowledge
of God's will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps,
we tried to carry this message to other sex addicts and to
practice these principles in our lives.

_________________
MikeC1956
Asst Admin

know that your sin will find you out. Numbers 32:23b NET

Statement of beliefs
Code of Conduct
The Bible NETwork Blogs
The NeXt Bible Learning Environment
BeneSHOP: Help support Bible.org at no additional cost to you when you shop!

fides quarens intellectum, credo ut intelligam
faith seeking knowledge, believe to understand

all quotations are by bible translation indicated.

Disclaimer: What I am about to post, is in no way intended to accuse, judge, or disparage anyone here. MikeC1956




wow!

Is it because it's sunday, and everyone is at services?

I thought for sure this would spark some kind of discussion.

If I moved this thread to the men's private discussion are would it make it easier to share? PM or email me with answer. All correspondence will be held in the strictest of confidence, your privacy will not be violated publically. And if I think something would benefit the group as a whole, I would always ask for your permission before using the information the context of these threads alone and whether you would want to be identified or not. [i]sometimes circumstance can be shared with little risk to those sharing by simply stating, "I know of someone who...."

Is or has one of us, besides me that is, struggling or has struggled, with this right now or ever before? This is one of those things that demands "eternal vigilence", so long as we have testosterone in our bodies, we will have thoughts about women. Sometimes, when we are having a good day, they won't be so bothersome. There will be other days when we'll be close to out of control.

This behavior should not be confused with "normal" sexual attraction either. God created us as sexual beings (yea God), it's when our behavior goes beyond that which is considered "normal" when things go awry. Spending time on the computer visiting porn sites, spending money which should be going towards household needs. For those who married, steals time away from your spouse, your children. Takes time away that would be better spent in study of the word, and prayer, and fellowship with others.

I know how hard it is to be open and honest when it comes to stuff like this, believe me, I've had years of field experience (as the participant, not the observer(sort of a good example of what not to do.)

Can we address this? Should we address this? Is this whole conversation too close for comfort. Believe me, I've prayed about this, and it isn't easy for me either. What would people think, what would people say?

The assurance of confidentiality/anonymity is one step towards building a safe and trusting place to share. Only we, we have an additional issue: the internet. Hacking and cracking into sites for the heck of it.

But having checked on the SAA site, and they have several different kinds of "online" options.

Online text - Chat
Telemeeting - by phone from central location

Online (Web) Meeting: An online meeting is held in real time over an Internet connection. SAA uses IRC from a secure chat server and some have Skype. The meeting schedule tells what format that each particular meeting will be in. Maybe we by Skype. Which also has video...for one on one, and it can conference by audio and/or text.

Think it over, let me know, by email or PM...

Mike

_________________
MikeC1956
Asst Admin

know that your sin will find you out. Numbers 32:23b NET

Statement of beliefs
Code of Conduct
The Bible NETwork Blogs
The NeXt Bible Learning Environment
BeneSHOP: Help support Bible.org at no additional cost to you when you shop!

fides quarens intellectum, credo ut intelligam
faith seeking knowledge, believe to understand

all quotations are by bible translation indicated.

I would venture to guess that 99% of all Christian men struggle, or have struggled, with sexual lust to some degree or another. I certainly have, and still do. I'm 60, but I'm still a man. And being a man, I'm wired to find women attractive. The world we live in today is saturated with sex -- sexual images, sexual innuendo, sexual behavior, sexual talk. It's everywhere. And there are moments when I feel the impact of sexual attraction in a way that I know I shouldn't. I have to step back and make a deliberate effort to see as God sees, to remember the cross where my Savior gave his life to save me from sin, to regain an eternal perspective, to see the test for what it is, and to remember the faithfulness of God who will not let me be tempted beyond what I am able to bear, but with each temptation provides a way of escape so that I can overcome and pass the test. One doesn't have to be sexually addicted to have struggles in this area and we all do ourselves and each other a great favor if we're honest about our struggles. Hiding doesn't help. In fact, hiding these struggles is exactly what our enemy wants us to do. If we are open and honest, we'll know we're not alone in this and we can encourage, pray for, and strengthen one another. If we are open and honest, wanting to overcome, God will pour out his grace upon us, cleansing us and enabling us to live in a way that pleases him.

1 John 1:9 9 But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness. Context (NET)

James 5:16 16 So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness. Context (NET)

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Well, I'm gonna jump in here. I was one of those kids that stole the sears catalogs. My parents swore against porn, but I later (in my teens) found out that my dad kept a few playboys in his chest. So, all of a sudden it became more acceptable. Not to say I thought I could look at anything in public. I always felt shameful when looking at the images.
After I had been married a few years we got a computer, and found that computer shows often had some guy selling porn on CD. Being we were both young and immature I would view the CDs, and it was so far ok, cuz its not like I was with someone else! right? (not asking) At some point we tried using it to spice up our bedroom life, but secretly, it still felt shameful, and HONESTLY, I don't think she liked it either. Then, one day walking through a mall, I was looking a girl walking in a different direction and walked into a pole, while holding my wife's hand. That was the end of her allowing me to think she was ok with this activity. We talked about it over several days and concluded that it was a bad Idea.
I've been in 12 step programs before, and while I'll admit they worked, they are no longer necessary or me. However, God IS, WAS, and ALWAYS will be necessary for me.
After I started reading the bible, I came to a point where all that kinda stuff had to be DESTROYED!!! I either burned it or tossed it in the trash.
Now when a commercial comes on in reference to scant clothes, or any other sexual reference I turn away, and ponder something else. Could be yard work, Prayer, Think about one of my favorite bible chapters. (Isaiah 12 is the new one.)
I posted on the eye bouncing thread, which was a new term to me, but the idea is the same. The eyes just need to look elsewhere.
Jesus, paid the price for that sinful act, and now when I find myself tempted, I feel like his blood is on my hands. "I CRUCIFIED HIM". Not too long ago I was tested. I was setting up a web browser and it asked if adult content should be allowed. ( it was an office computer ) I allowed it. Next thing I see is links to porn then a video popping up.
I straight out panicked. Uninstalled it and immediately went to beg God for forgiveness. All I know, is the more I depend on God, the easier it is to follow him. It works for porn, drugs, and personally, it also works with alcohol.
May God Bless you and keep you. Thanks for the share Mike, you can post as much as you want.

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ROTFL!

Thanks Guy, that's probably the funniest story I've heard here:
"Then, one day walking through a mall, I was looking a girl walking in a different direction and walked into a pole, while holding my wife's hand. "

I had a similar experience when visiting the Naval Academy. I was walking down the narrow streets of old Annapolis talking to a girl on my left. I was on the outside by the curb. I was walking at a good clip when BAM! I had gone headfirst into a thick steel utility pole.. Everyone in the vicinity was laughing, including my girlfriend......

_________________
Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB

I so very much appreciate the courage the Lord has given you to confess your, dare I call it, sin. Not many men posted, but those that did their honesty is clearly seen. I am not free of sin by any stretch. I find hope in the fact that Jesus loved me despite my sinful self.

May I ask each of you to review Romans 7:14-25. These verses are not an excuse for our falling away or moving to the worldly path, but these verses are instructive. Paul speaks to his desire to be spiritual and to live to please Christ. But, no matter how hard he tries his sinful nature causes him to fail in his walk. The Law is spiritual. It is holy in every way, but he is not holy! He knows he is to strive to be righteous, but righteousness is not in him.

Paul, of all people, a man of Christ, exclaims, "Oh wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this death?"

Paul doesn't understand why he does the things that he does. He hates himself for doing the wrong thing. He knows the right thing to do, but he does NOT do it!

The Holy Spirit guides Paul's hand and his thoughts when Paul writes, "It is no longer I who do it, but sin in me that does it." It is these bodies my brothers. It is because we have these bodies.

Paul wants to do God's will as do we. "I thank God," Paul writes. God brings us deliverance.

We will find affirmation in the fruit of our lives in the Savior. Pray, pray often. Love Him with all you have. Get a friend who understands your dilemma and pray with him regularly.

I ask God to keep me; to keep us free, from the sin that destroys. I pray He carries us under His wing and protects us from the world. I pray for all of us that His Spirit will encourage and empower each of us to love Him with all our hearts. He loved us first and we need to be beholden to Him. He is God. We are His children. Help us Father to find our way. Lead us on the way everlasting. In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

I'm familiar with that section of scripture, And I find Paul's circular argument somewhat amusing as well as edifying. It amuses me because I can say the same thing. When I read that passage, I read it as though Paul is sharing his spiritual battle with us, as I believe that is exactly what he is doing. I didn't understand it at first, many moons ago, but after God opened my eyes to it, I can read it as it is.
I thank God daily that he has delivered me from the Bondage of my sinful old man, As it says in 2 Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old is gone, the new has come. (NIV)
But I must pray daily to be filled, cuz I sin in my sleep, and HE is faithful to forgive.
and in 2 Cor 5:21 it says "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." (NIV)
Christ has paid MY penalty, and washed me anew. I pray daily for His guidance and strength, cuz without him; I cant do it!
So, as time goes on and those temptations come around it easier to stand my ground knowing that God's own hand holds me up.

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I am not as convinced God is trying to persuade us with circular reasoning as you are. I'll make room for it though. In the verses previous to 14-25 Paul is writing about having been freed from the sin that destroys. We have a newness of Spirit in our spirits (v6) because Christ fulfilled the OT Law. We are not slaves to the Law, but bond servants to Christ. Chapter 8 builds on this theme of freedom from sin.



A question to ponder; was Paul speaking about his sin or was he speaking of the sin of a new believer? I read these verses literally (Romans 7:14-25). I believe Paul is speaking of himself. He says he has difficulty wrestling with sin. Are we any less affected?


We will certainly see righteousness when we are in His presence.


Amen. I am saved because I believe He lived, He died and He is resurrected. I believe He is the Son of God. I didn't always understand it, but He makes it more clear.

God bless you and keep you my brother.

Please don't take me TOO seriously. The circular reference is simply a part of my reasoning out my salvation, and I agree, Paul was talking about himself.
My favorite part of Romans is chapter 12, mainly verses 1&2, but I like the whole chapter.

Rom 12:1-2

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Barnes,
Thanks for reminding us of these great passages from the apostle of Grace.

Paul had one foot in heaven, the other foot in the world, and he was still a habitual
sinner! Try this exercise if you get the chance. Speed read Paul from beginning to end.
AS fast as possible. He comes to life! Furthermore, many of his passages have more than one meaning. They go everywhere. If you don't agree with this, please don't flame, or try to set me up with forked tongue. Just share your two cents.

2 Cor 12:7-11 7 even because of the extraordinary character of the revelations. Therefore, so that I would not become arrogant, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to trouble me – so that I would not become arrogant. 8 I asked the Lord three times about this, that it would depart from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is enough for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” So then, I will boast most gladly about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may reside in me. 10 Therefore I am content with weaknesses, with insults, with troubles, with persecutions and difficulties for the sake of Christ, for whenever I am weak, then I am strong. 11 I have become a fool. You yourselves forced me to do it, for I should have been commended by you. For I lack nothing in comparison to those “super-apostles,” even though I am nothing. Context (NET)

_________________
Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB

Guy spoke about finding Romans 12:1,2 to be favorite verses for him from Romans. I am partial to Romans 14:1-12. I am not about the business of arguing over things that don't really impact our salvation. So you can rest easy...I will not flame you.

I recently preached a sermon on Romans 7 to a small Baptist church. The preparation for that sermon was God's blessing to me and it is to Him I give glory. Those verses served to show me that God is forgiving beyond what we deserve. I have sinned the same sin dozens even hundreds of times knowing that I was displeasing Him. Yet, by His Word I know he has forgiven me! Why? Because He loved me first.

I also think that He is a wrathful Father. We should fear His wrath. There is a consequence for not giving Him what He wants from us; to love Him with all our hearts, all our minds, all our bodies, and all our spirit.

I wont' be able to speed read Romans as you suggest. I am confident it would be instructive. I am involved in a couple of Bible projects that deserve my attention. I love posting here, but I have a sermon to prepare to give. I attend a Bible study that I really enjoy because there is so much to discuss. And, God has given me a desire to know more about premillenialism; is it right doctrine?

God bless you my brother in Christ,

This is a bit off topic, but I think Douglas Moo believes Paul is speaking of himself (and the people of God in general) before coming to faith in Christ and being regenerated by the Spirit of God, which does seem to fit with Paul's admonition: "Walk in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

To say that Paul was a habitual sinner suggests that he practiced sin, which, according to the teachings of Paul, John, and Jesus, would have disqualified him from any inheritance in the kingdom of heaven.

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Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!

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