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 Post subject: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Hi everyone,

This is going to be a lengthy post, but I feel like it all needs to be said so you can get a clear picture of where I am coming from.  

I accepted Christ into my heart, supposedly, when I was six years old. I distinctly remember where I was and thinking ,"I don't want to go to hell, I want to go to heaven." So I accepted him and told my parents and everyone, but was afraid of going up in front of the church to be baptized.

 So flash forward to when I was 7-8 years old. I did some terrible things with my cousin who was 5 years older than I was. I don't know if it is considered molestation because I knew it was wrong I just did not know how bad it was.  He talked me into it initially, but there would be times that I initiated. And it stopped when one day I told him no. But I do remember thinking I am saved so Jesus will forgive me.

Now at 12 years old I decided to make a public profession and be baptized in the church. So my pastor came and talked about what it meant to be saved and I acknowledged I was and was baptized. After that, however, I started sinning sexually. I started looking at pornography and found some friends who were terrible influences.  I was even drinking beer in 8th grade. The biggest part I hid though was my sexual behavior. I never had sexual relations with a girl but pornography was big. I've also done some things that I probably can't mention on this website. But the point is I am doing this as a "saved" person. About halfway through high school I repented and stopped drinking and everything else. 

So I get to college and everything is going well until about my sophomore year. I bought a porn DVD and started watching that.  Started partying and kept that up until my senior year. I found my future wife at Spring Break one year and we never had sex but we did other things. All the time Im thinking God will forgive me. But I would feel tremendously guilty afterwards because I knew it was wrong.  I literally felt during the act a willful rebellion against Jesus and was using his grace as a license to sin. 

That was about 3 years ago and I have not looked at porn, and stopped doing things with my girlfriend. Although we have messed up a few times (touched each other briefly) since.

The theme through all of that is "I thought I was forgiven so I can sin." Today, I know that was an abuse of grace that Paul talks about in Romans. I understand that Jesus became my sin and gave me his righteousness (2 cor. 5:17). I honestly don't know though if I have an intellectual knowledge of that or if I have been born-again. I want to love Jesus with all of my heart I just feel like I get glimpses of that. I don't know if I am still a slave to sin or not.  I have tried numerous times to stop masturbating and usually make it about a month.  I want to stop deep down, but I don't want to. So I want to want to. If that makes sense.    So then I came across this by John Piper:

What would you say to a person about to commit a sexual sin because he was confident God would forgive him? I would say (and have said to such a person): "If you believe that what you are about to do is sin, and you decide to do it because God has promised to forgive sin, then probably your decision will be evidence that you are not born again, you are not a Christian but are still 'in the gall of bitterness and the bond of iniquity (Acts 8:23)."' ''Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?" Paul asks in Romans 6:1, 2, and answers, "By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?" Those who are born of God and love Jesus cannot walk up to Jesus as he hangs on the cross and say, "I know that you are suffering now for my sins and that it is your dying wish that I sin no more. But there's this
one need that I have that I can only satisfy by sinning, so I hope you'll understand as I thrust this other sword into your side. There now. I sure am glad that every time I do that your blood forgives me." Those who have been born of God cannot think like that. So all I have to say to a person before he chooses to commit sin is, "Advance at your own peril. There may be no forgiveness, because you may be so decisively hardened by crucifying Christ afresh (Hebrews 6:6) that you will not be able to find genuine repentance anymore (Hebrews 12:16, 17)."

That described me in a nutshell. So I have pretty much come to the conclusion I'm unrepetent and never was and never have been saved. And am wondering if I'm past the point of repentance. I want to believe in Jesus totally, but I don't else I would not be asking this.  I know I need to talk to someone in my church but I wanted to go here first for advice. Thanks in advance. 
 


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 Post subject: Re: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:06 pm 
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Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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First, no one is beyond redemption. Some people get so callused that they will not repent and be redeemed, but no one is ever bad enough to where Jesus' blood is not enough.

Someone who sins blatantly and continually has probably not been saved.

You say in your last paragraph that you are unrepentant. Repentance is necessary. It is the beginning.

If you come to the place that you want to belong to God and you will come before Him broken, and tell Him that you want to give yourself to Him and that you know that there is nothing you can do to be worthy and ask Him to have mercy on you and to bring you in by His grace, and you mean it all then He will save you.

You will not be perfect after that. Paul was not perfect at any point in his life. He sinned and so will you. When he did he confessed, and sin after salvation was cleansed the same way as sin before his salvation was. It is cleansed by the blood of Christ.

Look at Romans 7:14-25. Paul struggled with sin at the time that he wrote Romans.

Jesus has done everything on the cross that it takes to save you. He paid for every sin you will ever commit. Remember that when he went to the cross all of your sins were in the future.

If you want to belong to God, give yourself and your sin to Him. You cannot deal with it. He can.

True, you are not worthy. Neither am I. Neither was Paul. You will not be worthy, in yourself, after salvation. Your worthiness is not relevant. The worthiness of Jesus is.

Trust Him and His worthiness.

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 Post subject: Re: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:31 pm 
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JS,

I disagree with Piper. This should answer your question:

http://www.faithalone.org/gospel.html

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Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB


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 Post subject: Re: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:41 pm 
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I thought I was repentant. I hate what I did with every ounce of me. I have also done everything in my power to stop it from happening again. So that part of me says I am born-again but there are other things that make me doubt.

I have always hated what I have done, but after reading Piper it brought tremendous doubt. But how far can you take what he says? Wouldn't that make every sin of commission we have be evidence of our lack of rebirth?


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 Post subject: Re: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:47 pm 
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You asked:"Wouldn't that make every sin of commission we have be evidence of our lack of rebirth?"

The answer is no.

If only one who never sinned again would be saved then no one would be saved. Remember that we are not lost because we are bad. We are lost because we fall short of the standard. That standard is the holiness of God.

The tiniest sin is as effective at causing us to fall short as the most blatant.

It should hurt us to sin because that is all the more for Jesus to pay for on the Cross, but our sin will never be too much for Him to pay for.

Every sin of commission is evidence that we remain sinners. We will always be sinners until God takes us home.

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 Post subject: Re: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:01 pm 
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No I understand it is grace alone by faith alone. I was referencing Piper where he said that if we willfully sin and use the excuse well Jesus paid for this sin it is evidence we are not regenerated. I was saying that it seems that would include all sins of commission because all of those are willful deliberate acts of sin.

Sorry to get off topic. But I guess my main hangup is do I really believe? I wonder if it is an intellectual belief or a heartfelt belief. I will continue to pray that God opens my eyes to make it clear either way.


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 Post subject: Re: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:04 pm 
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The fact that you care so much about it indicates that it is real.

If you were lost you would not care.

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 Post subject: Re: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:12 pm 
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I think this explores your doubts in more detail:

http://faithalone.org/faith_files/1.html

(Page down and use next arrows)
You REALLY need to hear this or you will make yourself crazy.
I agree with John's last two as well. :-)


That's all I have to say.

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Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB


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 Post subject: Re: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:00 pm 
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Thanks serendipity I will take a look.


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 Post subject: Re: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Have a look at David's life He was a man after God's heart what happened to him.
Prayer and a williness to have God create a pure heart, it takes time. Psalms 51

With God all things are possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:17 am 
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What I love about Ps 51 is the simple fact that it is God who does everything.

He's the one who cleanses, blots out iniquity, restores, has mercy, washes, forgives ...

My favourite verse, the one that gives me much comfort is
Ps 51:10 10 Create for me a pure heart, O God! Renew a resolute spirit within me! Context (NET)


When I was struggling with pornography and masturbation I vowed hundreds of times to stop, and really tried as best I could, falling over and over again. Until I finally realised that I can't do it. Only God can, as I gave over control to Him and begged him to take out my filthy heart and give me a clean one. Praise God, I've been married for 2 1/2 years and free from all that filth!


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 Post subject: Re: Abuse of God's grace
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:59 pm 
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Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ and that through his perfect life, suffering, death and resurrection he paid for every single one of your sins, past, present and future? Is this what you believe, that God Himself, through God the Son, Jesus the Christ, came to earth, was born into the human race as a human without sin, lived a sinless life, suffered on the cross not for his sin because he was perfect, divine and innocent but for yours and all of ours and in his death, burial and resurrection became the substitute for you so that instead of dying and suffering for your sins, he, Christ, is your substitute? Is that what you believe?

If so, you are saved. This is the declaration of Scripture. It doesn't matter how much you fail as a Christian, that isn't the basis of your salvation. Many believers do many things, over and over and over again that are quite sinful. And no, even if you think to yourself that it's okay because you are saved, it does not make you somehow suspect as a Christian. It only makes you a poorly thinking Christian who is thinking by means of his carnal nature and not his new nature (Colossians).

If you have believed on Christ as your Savior, he saves you and it is his integrity that keeps you saved. It might be you simply need to mature but your faith need not be in yourself or your performance, rather in Christ whose integrity assures and insures your salvation. Maybe you have and still act immaturely, we all do from time to time. Don't be fooled as if what you believe to be great saints don't do immature things, selfish things, very sinful things, and while doing them recall that it won't "cancel" their salvation. There is no place in the Bible that teaches "Christians are polite and thoughtful sinners when they sin".

Your confidence for your salvation is in Christ and Christ alone. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".


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