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I have to agree with you John. I believe that it depends on how you act or don't act upon those feelings. I know, when I see a beautiful woman, I think that would be nice. And I leave it at that. Now, I think if you keep staring at that person with nothing but lust in your eyes, mind and heart, then you have crossed the lines into a dangerous place.

A friend of mine says, "You can get your appetite anywhere, but always eat at home."

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John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

MY 2 CENTS.....
IMO When one looks at a Lady there's a big difference between "she's a really pretty girl" and "boy, I'd like to....".

If one has spent his time looking at porn and conditioned himself to undress with his eyes, then adultry in the heart, head, and all other faculties is no matter of distance. Much of our culture trains us to think not relationally but sexually IMO. Everything seems to revolve around and lead to physical intimacy (Which IMHO is only a small part of God's relational design). Proximity is not the issue, for a J.C. Penney catalog is fuel enough for the fire within the man's belley...or should we say pants. I don't like the comparisome between animals & humans but in this case it's fitting.

One can also train himself and his mind to see women without all the sexual passion flowing. (For some here I know this is somewhat a revelation.) The thing is, many of us have been conditioned otherwise. I'm sorry John, but this is not a Biblical concept. What confirms we can get our appetite anywhere? The implications of this are terrible. Perhaps this is partly because men have been told they're dogs and idiots so much that they simply play the part! Biblical manhood is soo much more than this and seeing ourselves made in the Image of God (an interesting thread BTW) and understanding the implications of that leads to so much more IMHO.

Women are not objects to be used and thrown away! Passion is something that has a place in your lives and that is not a room you keep hidden away in your heart with all kinds of stolen images in it's place. Passion is designed for that one relationship that honors the Lord and His design. It's designed for that one mutual relationship which gives glory to our Creator and His design. It affirms selfless devotion and displays in all it's ways (including our thoughts) lifetime commitment. Either we as redeemed fallen individuals seek to, and struggle to attain that REAL intimacy...OR Satan has convinced us to settle for so much more less and will use that to drag us AND others further down to the pit.

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Blessings,
Randy
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Randy,
I know we do not always agree in the non-essentials but this post you have nailed it on the head of a needle. It is a good thing to lay out the biblical truth in an unregenerant world. the impluse is consumer driven and is wraught with profit behind it to fuel the desires of many. How sad, really it comes down the simplist emotion inffected by our sinful desires, which were never part of the image of God. The beauty is in the eye of the beholder, looking to the gateway of the soul thru the eyes is where lust fades away and the image becomes clearer and sin is exsposed for what it is. For the men that have a weakness, I say this, focus on the eyes which go deeper than the skin will ever. This is where the spirit of truth resides, not in the loins. I have heard it said the first look is permissable, the second time is well, you know, againist you, above the neck, unless it is your wife

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Ah Randy,

You impugn motives when they are not there. Those who look for evil see evil everywhere. To a man who wields a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

You need to learn to relax. Maybe this is an Australian way of talking that you are not comfortable with. My friend seriously lives for justice and caring relationships, and so do I. Neither of us see women as sex-objects, that was your idea. We take seriously the equality of men and women more than those who hang onto the 'wives should submit to their husbands' brigade. There is true respect. It is biblical. It does come out of true Godly love. Beware of equating puritanism with being biblical.

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John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

John, I don't think everything Randy said was necessarily directed at you. Some of the things he said may not apply to you, but I completely agree with all that he said and I'm quite certain that a lot of men -- a lot of Christian men -- need to hear what Randy just said.

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"The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him." (John 14:21)

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On their travels, a monk and a novice came to a deep stream.
As they were preparing to cross a beautiful young woman ask them to help her cross.
"Of course", said the monk and hoisted her on his shoulders.
they forded the stream and on the other side the monk put her down on the ground. She thanked them and they continued on their journey.
At the evening meal the novice was rather agited and the monk asked him what was wrong.
"How could you?", the novice said. "We have a vow not to touch women, and there you were holding onto her legs with her young thighs around her neck".
"Ah", said the monk, "Are you still carrying her? I put her down a long time ago."

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John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

Meaning that you are a monk and I a novice? Or perhaps that monks do not honor their vows?

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"The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him." (John 14:21)

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That's a plus for narrative theology. The Holy Spirit can easily speak to each person as appropriate. It is better to avoid giving interpretations. The worst lines of Bob Dylan's poetry are "The moral of this story, the moral of this song is ..."

NB. I purposely did not address the post to anyone. It just happened to follow yours.

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John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

I guess we should leave Ephesians 4:23-31 closed in case we get offended?

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Favourite verse John 7:37-39

Thank you Gideon & Kolabok for the compliments!

I did not question your friends motives nor yours. Your friend's quote, when applied to food is fine; when it is applied to women it is, at best, demeaning to the relationship one has at home. As I said earlier it has terrible implications. On a site where many less mature may slip in unnoticed, that quote should very well be challenged. It is not a Biblical concept and cannot be confirmed in Scripture. Further, even said jokingly, it is a falsehood which some might take seriously. I did not "impugn" or challenge anyone's motives. I challenged a statement which was placed in a certain specific context. Do you mean to defend this statement when it is applied to women and relationships?

As Cale rightly pointed out, the points of my post was not all pointed at you personally. Frankly the only part pointed at you was specific and clear IMO.

(Emphasis mine) Now it is you who impugn something not even said here in this thread. You have jumped to a conclusion and seemingly seek to place me in what you percieve as an overall negative group. BTW I do hold that all Scripture is authoritative and still applicable today when understood properly. Therefore I do affirm Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, Titus 2:4-5, & 1 Peter 3:1-6. That discussion will have to be done elsewhere for another time.
I have not shown you any disrespect. I have challenged your statement. Your statement about respect above is right and works both ways IMO.
You will need to be more clear here. I have read and hold a great deal of respect for many Puritans to include John Owen, Jeremiah Burroughs, Jeremiah Bolton, John Bunyan, Richard Baxter, and Jonathan Edwards. I would be interested in your explanation of such a negative and judgmental view as the one you've stated about "puritanism". Perhaps you could open a new discussion. I know there are many here who would be happy to enter such a discussion.

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Blessings,
Randy
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right on randy, richard baxter's, call to the unconverted and the saint's everlasting rest are a must read

Sanctification is a transcript of the precepts of the Word on the heart, written out by the Spirit of God...
-Richard Baxter

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Both very good reads Kolabok! I would also recommend The Reformed Pastor for anyone in Ministry as well. IMO a must read for pastors. Ahhh....we better get back on topic and leave the books for the appropriate forum.

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Blessings,
Randy
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Yep forgot that one in my rush of joy

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

I agree with not being alone with a woman other than your spouse or intended.

Aside from that, friendship relationships with women are to be encouraged. The idea that men never discuss their emotions, except to brag, while women share their emotions freely, is out of date. Men should learn to open up to other men, and also to women.

If it shows signs of becoming something more intimate than friendship, that's a big red flag. Put a stop to it before it becomes too late.

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Not all those who wander are lost.