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Thanks, Pax. Words of wisdom there.

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Some say Jesus was not a pacifist...

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Matthew 26:52 (NIV)

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.
Galatians 5:14

If I may, Pax certainly did answer this well. The circumstances really are the key to understanding the situation, thus will 'depend' what the answer is.

1. Personally, I don't think God does regard the pain you're going through as punishment. It can be the self-inflicted pain of still wanting the sin or merely the shame of failing the One who matters most... painful or not, there are consequences to our actions that will occur. Whether that consequence is public or between you and your walk with God, each situation varies.

2. I believe we can pray for relief of that pain, but the key will always be that we be praying for His will to be done/accomplished, not our own. There's no real way for me to know what one may pray for, other than whatever it is for, it should be to His Glory.

3. I agree with 'one time'. The answer still depends though. Is it in a sorrowful nature, embarrassment aspect, or would it be actual repentance? The latter is the only way to receive His forgiveness as I understand it.

I think David and Solomon both repented of their sin, but there were still consequences for it, right?

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"I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had no where else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all about me, seemed insufficient for the day." ~Abraham Lincoln

FYI, "Pax" is not Serendipity's name. It is merely, I believe, his (Latin) way of saying "Peace." Not that he's Latin.

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"The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him." (John 14:21)

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Thanks. Yes, it's for peace. My real name is Ricky Ricardo and I'm a ballroom dancer from Argentina. Lucy!
<g>

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Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB

Let me begin by saying that I very much agree with Serendipity.

In addition:
1. I believe that all sin carries physical, mental, and spiritual consequences. (Designed to urge us towards repentance.)
2. Sure someone can pray. Does that mean that God is gonna answer the prayer? That usually depends on the persons heart condition doesn't it?
3. As many times as you continue repeating the sin after asking forgiveness. Boy is that a horrible statement. It almost gives license to sin. (Doesn't that open a whole other can of worms?)

In summary its an if then statement. If one recognizes what is happening as a consequence of their sin, then they will turn to God for help. (The next statement I believe only applies to those in a covenant relationship with God) But God requires a repentant heart not just a rescue me from the consequences of my actions attitude. And until one is truly repentant they will continue to live the same cycle over and over and over again thus referring to number 3.

I don't get it. Please explain.

_________________
Some say Jesus was not a pacifist...

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Matthew 26:52 (NIV)

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.
Galatians 5:14

I have to agree with you, bluesman. That statement #2 doesn't quite jive. I believe God answers all prayer. Whether one's heart is proper or not, God's answers in many ways: Yes, No, wait, etc...

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"I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had no where else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all about me, seemed insufficient for the day." ~Abraham Lincoln

You see, here's the thing about "thy neighbor's wife"...

A one-time sexual encounter with someone you don't know very well or even like very much is relatively easy to "get out of the way" sin-wise; i.e., it happened, it's over, and now you are truly ashamed and repentant. You acknowledge to God that it was a mistake and pray for forgiveness.

But what if you fall in love with someone outside of marriage? Never mind how or why it happened -- it just did. And now she's gone.

It gets a lot more complicated now, prayer-wise...

Because you can act as if you don't really love her but that amounts to self-deception. You can't just shut off love like a faucet and tell yourself it's not there. Anyone who's ever lost love knows that you can't change your feelings simply because you want to.

And, as time passes and the hurt dissipates, what do you say to God?

Somebody is bound to ask: was it worth the pain? But that's a very difficult question to answer right now.

_________________
Some say Jesus was not a pacifist...

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Matthew 26:52 (NIV)

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.
Galatians 5:14

I have a couple of additional questions to ask:
1. What is the difference between "punishment" and "discipline"?
2. Does God punish those for whom Christ's blood has already purchased atonement?
3. What does repentance look like in this situation?

Punishment is an act of justice being meted out for an offense against God (or against man, in the case of civil punishment). God metes out both temporal and eternal punishment to His enemies as payment for their offenses against Him. The Bible teachs that God's wrath falls against sinners who thumb their noses at God.

God does not punish His children, He disciplines them, the way a parent disciplines a child to bring about repentance and right behavior. When an individual has been reborn through the stirring of the Holy Spirit to repentance and faith, God no longer has wrath toward that person. The punishment for his sins has already been received by Jesus upon the cross. God will not punish an individual for sins that His Son has already taken upon Himself. Which is not to say that His children will not undergo sufferings in this life, since the Bible promises us that we will undergo suffering. But we can know that we have been spared from eternal punishment in the next life.

Bluesman, I know from past posts that you don't like Bible quoting, but tough luck, I'm gonna do it anyway, since the Bible has authority which I do not possess.



Now, what does repentance look like? In the case of an affair of the heart (whether or not such affair has resulted in an adulterous sexual relationship) between person M who is married and person F who is not M's spouse, repentance looks like turning away from the relationship regardless of the "feelings" involved. We are not animals and we do have some control over our feelings. Emotions don't always snap to attention on command, but emotions are within our control. We can "just shut off love like a faucet" but it may drip for awhile after we shut it off (some faucets are drippier than others).

As the time passes and the hurt dissipates, we say to God, thank You for Your love and mercy toward me, a sinner, because Jesus paid for this sin as well as all of the others that I have committed over a life of 10, 30, 50, 80, 90 years. By Your grace, help me to guard my heart to not allow me to give it away foolishly ever again.



In college I sold dictionaries door to door after atttending a week-long sales school. One of the things I learned there was a motivational concept that I have remembered ever since. "Act enthusiastic and you'll become enthusiastic."

Drawing upon the illustration in Bill Bright's "Four Spiritual Laws" tract, there is a train with an engine, a coal car and a caboose. The engine is Fact: What God says in His Word. The coal car is Faith: Our response to the facts He has revealed to us. The caboose is our Feelings: They tag along behind Fact and Faith. Don't let the caboose try to lead the train.

Regards.

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All Scripture quotations are New American Standard Bible, unless otherwise indicated.

Please be careful by understanding no one has ever fallen into sin on accident, just like no one has fallen into adultery or fallen in love with another. Love is entirely one's choice; it is better explained as someone's decision. Whether it come from a hardened heart or softened one, our sin through difficult or easy choices are still our own decisions. I'll accidentally fall over my own feet or even off of my bike, but those are not themselves sinful. Accidents happen, yet sin happens exclusive as a result of someone (other than God's choice). We sin by our choice.

Gary Smalley wrote a book called Love is a decision. He did a fine job explaining this, I believe. (http://www.amazon.com/Love-Decision-Dr- ... 0849942683)

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"I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had no where else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all about me, seemed insufficient for the day." ~Abraham Lincoln

Thanks for the catch, of course God always answers prayer with a yes, no, or wait. What I intended to write was "Does that mean that God is going to answer your prayer in the affirmative?"

On the subject of "falling in love", if you allow yourself to have sex before marriage are you truly showing agape to that person or is it eros. In my experience, although our society teaches that love = sex; if we truly love someone then we place their wellbeing above our own "desires" and having sex outside of marriage no matter the circumstances has no beneficial value. Therefore it must be lust and not love. In the stated situation if the man truly "loved" the woman as much as he believes, then he wouldn't have had sex with her.

Is it easy to get over? Heck no. Certainly contributing to the issue is that our understanding of "love" is really perverted in this country. We "love" everything from our wives to football to a certain food. Heck, we "love" just about anything and everything.

This man will eventually have to realize and understand that he lusted this woman more than he loved her. I speak from personal experience. And it was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I believed that I loved "my" woman more than life itself and it took me over 3 years before my heart softened enough to hear what the Lord was trying to tell me.

Hi Jim. Thank you for your reply.

I actually don't mind bible-quoting at all as long as it's focused on a particular point and accompanied by the poster's thoughts. I thought the verse you cited were excellent.


I really like that analogy. My emotions have cost me in life. Hindsight is 20-20 but it sometimes takes years to gain it.



Ha ha, that's for sure.

Anyway, thanks. Your words were very comforting.

_________________
Some say Jesus was not a pacifist...

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Matthew 26:52 (NIV)

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.
Galatians 5:14