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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:40 am 
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I, like many Americans, have been unemployed for sometime. In fact, I have been looking for work since Dec. 2009. During that time I've been attempting to know God better and understand what he wants me to do and how I should live.

And that entailed doing a ton of research in my free time via my bible and other sources.

In my quest I have gone from my Baptist church, to leaving it because it employs the use of female pastors/ministers. I started going to my cousin's church for awhile before changing and and attending church on Saturday, following OT dietary laws, and observing the Sabbath.

However, it seems like the more research I do, the more clouded I get. I'm at the point right now where I don't know when to worship, what to eat, who to pray to (Jesus, God or Yahweh) or what messages I should believe from the various sermons I have come across.

I've read/heard all of the arguments for and against certain elements within Christianity. Everything from me being an Israelite, to being a Gentile, to you are saved by grace or you are saved by keeping the law. They all seem to make sense to a degree.

I'm stuck. I just want to serve God the right way. I don't want to be wrong. I'm scared and frustrated.

How do I know what way to go?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:26 pm 
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Location: Beatty, Nevada
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Church sure has gotten complicated in the past 2000 years. There are so many varieties of doctrines that if you listen to all the different arguments for or against each issue, it can't be anything but confusing.

If you're looking for a church that believes and does everything 100% correctly, you won't find one. (And any one that claims to be the most correct you can eliminate right off the bat.)

My advice is to continue to study the scriptures, especially Acts and beyond to see how the church is supposed to function and what it is supposed to believe. Be careful with using the Law as a guide because that is a different covenant. If you try to follow both the old and new covenants, you will get confused.

Whatever church you join, remember the more important thing is reflecting Christ towards your Christian brothers and sisters. That means loving them (doing good to them regardless), showing grace to them (including being tolerant of their weaknesses and misunderstandings of non-essential doctrines), not setting stumbling blocks in their way, etc. They're not perfect just as you aren't.

Romans 14 is a good chapter to study on how to deal with differences of belief among Christians. The issues addressed in this chapter were considered no less serious than the hot issues of today among the various denominations...

"...One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. ... For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. ..."

If you want a guide of what you should be concerned with, look at the various instructions given to the churches in Acts and the epistles. In the lists of bad behaviour in Acts 15:19-20, Ephesians 5:3-5, Galatians 5:19-21, and elsewhere, you will find nothing that speaks of breaking the Sabbath, eating "unclean" food, being uncircumcised, etc. Only moral issues and non-edifying issues are mentioned.

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. (Colossians 2:16)

Personally I don't believe Christians are obligated to worship on Saturdays (as opposed to Sundays). However, if the only church in my area was Sabbatarian, then I should be a part of it - and not be devisive over it - as long as they don't deny essential doctrines (i.e the person and work of Christ, the inspiration of the Bible, etc.), and their focus is glorifying Christ and following Him.

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Andrew Bernhardt
"Salvation costs me nothing. Discipleship costs me everything."
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:43 pm 
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We even have Judiazers here. Unfortunately, the Apostle Paul way back 2000 years ago was dealing with Judiazers too. He said,
Quote:
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ. (Gal 1:6-12)

He went on to say
Quote:
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain. (Gal 2:17-21)

As for whether you are an Israelite or not, it doesn't matter. Only those whose hearts are circumcised are granted eternal life. Circumcision of the flesh is of no value.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:47 pm 
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Andybern wrote:
Church sure has gotten complicated in the past 2000 years. There are so many varieties of doctrines that if you listen to all the different arguments for or against each issue, it can't be anything but confusing.

If you're looking for a church that believes and does everything 100% correctly, you won't find one. (And any one that claims to be the most correct you can eliminate right off the bat.)

My advice is to continue to study the scriptures, especially Acts and beyond to see how the church is supposed to function and what it is supposed to believe. Be careful with using the Law as a guide because that is a different covenant. If you try to follow both the old and new covenants, you will get confused.

Whatever church you join, remember the more important thing is reflecting Christ towards your Christian brothers and sisters. That means loving them (doing good to them regardless), showing grace to them (including being tolerant of their weaknesses and misunderstandings of non-essential doctrines), not setting stumbling blocks in their way, etc. They're not perfect just as you aren't.

Romans 14 is a good chapter to study on how to deal with differences of belief among Christians. The issues addressed in this chapter were considered no less serious than the hot issues of today among the various denominations...

"...One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. ... For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. ..."

If you want a guide of what you should be concerned with, look at the various instructions given to the churches in Acts and the epistles. In the lists of bad behaviour in Acts 15:19-20, Ephesians 5:3-5, Galatians 5:19-21, and elsewhere, you will find nothing that speaks of breaking the Sabbath, eating "unclean" food, being uncircumcised, etc. Only moral issues and non-edifying issues are mentioned.

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. (Colossians 2:16)

Personally I don't believe Christians are obligated to worship on Saturdays (as opposed to Sundays). However, if the only church in my area was Sabbatarian, then I should be a part of it - and not be devisive over it - as long as they don't deny essential doctrines (i.e the person and work of Christ, the inspiration of the Bible, etc.), and their focus is glorifying Christ and following Him.


Thanks for the tips. The thing is I've read and re-read those scriptures to get understanding. It seems some pastors will tell you it means THIS while others will tell you it means THAT.

The best advice I've gotten so far is that everyone will tell me that their church or doctrine is the right way. I just don't want to stand before the Lord after I die and be cast to hell because I overlooked something or did not follow a certain doctrine.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:38 am 
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Posts: 2764
Location: Texas
Faith: Christian
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Name of your church: Oak Grove Baptist
The gospel is clear in the Bible
John 3:16 16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. Context (NET)
Romans 10:9-10 9 because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation. Context (NET)

Doctrine (even good) will not bring salvation. Many Pharisees had sound doctrine but missed the Lord they proclaimed to serve. It is faith which one needs and that faith must be in the only begotten Son of God. Read Hebrews 10:22-25. A full read of Hebrews 10 & 11 wouldn't hurt.

There are many issues out there which are quite minor. Doctrinal issues and differences abound and will continue to do so until our Lord comes back.

If anyone implies you need work for your salvation you can be assured they are teaching a false gospel. Read carefully those passages P-bob referred to along with Galatians 2:16 & Philippians 3:8-10.

I would recommend you start by finding a body with a statement of faith which looks something similar to that of the Bible.org Doctrinal Statement. I have many here who are my brothers and sisters in the faith. On some issues we disagree. On the main issues we remain united.

Then when the word is being preached and taught, carefully review the Word and see if what you're being told aligns with the Biblical text. (See Acts 17:11)

Blessings,
Randy


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:37 am 
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Granderson wrote:
...
How do I know what way to go?
If I may be so bold, I think the problem is that you want to listen to many voices and each of the voices is coming from a different tradition with different priorities. What is making your quest so difficult and so confusing is that there's not much balance in the many voices you're listening to. Each thinks and proclaims itself to be the truth and demands your ear and your obedience. None is leaving room for mystery and none for humility. Maybe you should stop listening to so many and settle for one; the one you ought to settle for is the voice of the Holy Spirit speaking through and in you and other christians, in the church.

My perspective is going to be just another voice if I tell you what to do and what to believe and what to read. I'd like to give you some guidance but I fear that before you can receive any with profit you need to find the silence where God speaks and that means stop listening to the voices of the teacher and leaders and writers who caused the confusion you are now experiencing. Find yourself by finding the Holy Spirit and I can recommend no better place to hear God than in a quiet, prayerful, meditative reading of sacred scripture. Start with the psalms ... but there I go, offering advice when I ought not.

God be with you.

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The proof of love is in the works. Where love exists, it works great things. But when it ceases to act, it ceases to exist.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:28 pm 
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Location: Foley, AL
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Name of your church: Calvary Baptist Church
Granderson, Perhaps you need to initially settle on a scripture which is very plain and simple, then when you are grounded in its truth, perhaps you will find it easier to understand other scriptures. May I suggest you consider Ephesians 2:1-10, memorizing verses 8 and 9.

Taking the time to memorize them will surely help you understand better, and may also be used as a foundation to stand on when you hear so many contradictory theories. Jack


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:34 pm 
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RTCrudgi wrote:
The gospel is clear in the Bible
John 3:16 16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. Context (NET)

Doctrine (even good) will not bring salvation. Many Pharisees had sound doctrine but missed the Lord they proclaimed to serve. It is faith which one needs and that faith must be in the only begotten Son of God. Read Hebrews 10:22-25. A full read of Hebrews 10 & 11 wouldn't hurt.

There are many issues out there which are quite minor. Doctrinal issues and differences abound and will continue to do so until our Lord comes back.

If anyone implies you need work for your salvation you can be assured they are teaching a false gospel. Read carefully those passages P-bob referred to along with Galatians 2:16 & Philippians 3:8-10.

I would recommend you start by finding a body with a statement of faith which looks something similar to that of the Bible.org Doctrinal Statement. I have many here who are my brothers and sisters in the faith. On some issues we disagree. On the main issues we remain united.

Then when the word is being preached and taught, carefully review the Word and see if what you're being told aligns with the Biblical text. (See Acts 17:11)

Blessings,
Randy

I'll be sure to keep all this mind. Thanks, Randy.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:51 pm 
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Hi Granderson,

I suggest you take a class on solid exegesis, or teach yourself exegesis from self-helps or something like that. Just reading the Bible and interpreting the Bible based on what it says isn't enough. I'm not saying that no one can understand anything in the Bible without exegetical analysis. It's obvious to most how we're saved; by grace through faith. And other things are obvious as well. But not everything is obvious, Bible study (as you may know) takes hard work, and we must be willing to work at it.

Anyways, here's a Scripture promise from Proverbs to cling on to in your journey:

"if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God. For the LORD gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding; he stores up sound wisdom for the upright; he is a shield to those who walk in integrity, guarding the paths of justice and watching over the way of his saints.
(Prov 2:3-8)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:17 am 
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Name of your church: Freedom Worship Center (above ecclesiology not listed)
You have been reading in the previous posts, so you understand that it's not just reading Scripture that gives you Truth. The Jews thought they could teach anyone the Truth, and yet they missed Him themselves. The Truth is not so much a list of rights and wrongs, or even principles and doctrines as it is God Himself, the Spirit of Truth.

There are two pieces of information in the Bible that seem to me to be what you are stuck between:

My sheep hear My voice,...John 10:27
........AND........
With many counselors there is safety. Proverbs 11:14

John 10 is New Testament--the covenant we as Christians live by today.
Proverbs 11 is Old Testament--the covenant the Jewish people had to obey, and which the Book of Hebrews says is now obsolete (but still there for us to learn from).

Today we don’t have to go to many counselors seeking knowledge. We have the Holy Spirit to witness in us. When you read Ephesians, though, you will find out that the Lord gave us Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers to bring us to full maturity, to what Ephesians calls a perfect man. What I hear you crying out for is to get to that point. (Ephesians 4:11)

The major difference between the John 10 and Proverbs 11 Scripture is this: Jesus made a way for us to come boldly to the Throne of Grace; the Holy Spirit who lives IN us will help us get there. In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit was available to Prophets, Priests, and Kings. That left out most of us. In the New Testament, the Holy Spirit is within us--God Himself living inside of us.

You have heard from so many people, commentaries, denominations, and even a brother-in-law. Wouldn’t it be just awesome to hear from God Himself! I believe that is what “DailyBread” was saying to you. Let me add to that, “You have not because you ask not.” (James 4:2) The problem is whom are you asking? We can all help with what we know, but the One with perfect answers is the Lord. You NEED to hear from Him.

It sounds like you still have the time to spend to FIND the Lord. Real praying means having a two-way communication with God. Ask God to hear from Him directly. Since that is His desire in the first place (He created mankind to fellowship with), you don’t have to twist His arm to get Him to talk to you.

Another thing you might ask God for is discerning of spirits. (1 Cor. 12:10) You need to know the holy from the unholy; the true from the false; the Godly from the worldly; the Lord’s Words, ways, and thoughts as opposed to yours, the world’s, or Satan’s.

Never be afraid to ask God directly. His Word says that if you ask for a fish, He won’t give you a serpent [which is the reptile Satan used in the Garden of Eden]. (Matthew 7:10) In other words, if you are asking to know more about Him and to have more of Him operating in you, God will not allow Satan to come in with false doctrine to trick you.

One thing I pray for myself almost every time goes something like this:

    Father, if I have prayed anything that is opposition to Your Word or desires, please disregard it and let me know so I don’t repeat it.
      If there is anything I should have prayed and failed to, please let the Holy Spirit pray that for me right now.
        If there is anything that I have learned about You or the Word that is incorrect, please teach me correctly and take the error out of me.
          If there are any correct teachings that I have misinterpreted, please let me have Your insight.
            God it is my whole desire to be pleasing to You in everything I think, do, and say. In every way that I have fallen short of this, I repent. Make those things clear to Me and change my heart so that my life is lived to Your Glory!

            God says He is not a God of confusion. (1 Cor 14:33)

            I pray over you right now that He will lead you out of the place you find yourself and into the Peace of the Lord. I pray that His Truth will be ever before you and that you will continually worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. And I bind every false teaching and false doctrine that has come to you from the enemy and ask that those weed seeds be pulled up out of you. I pray that your life be a blessing to the Body of Christ and that you fully accomplish every good work for which you have been prepared by the Lord. I ask these things in Jesus’ Mighty Name. Amen

            _________________
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            We preach Christ, and Him Lifted Up!


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