Bible Forum

The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

It is currently Wed May 22, 2013 2:47 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Forum rules


Welcome to the General Question and Answer section of our forum.

This forum is for people seeking basic answers to doctrines and issues within the Christian faith, and is strictly non-debate.

We have altered this particular forum so that in addition to the staff providing answers any user may post a reply. However replies are placed in the Moderation Queue. If after review your post is accepted it will then appear in the forum. If your post is disapproved you will receive a 2A notification of the disapproval.

*Please note - questions (new topics) are also placed in the Moderation Queue so it may take up to 72 hours for your post(s) to appear*


This forum was born out of a desire to provide accurate Christian Theology information in a non-hostile, non-debate forum. If you have a question about Christian theology, please do not hesitate to start a thread in this forum. It is strictly question and answer, no debate. We (the staff) will either answer your question ourselves or ask for assistance from another member of the forum or one of the Bible.org scholars. *If a registered, non staff member, would like to answer a question please feel free to do so. Your post will be placed in the Moderators box for reviewed. Once approved your post will appear in the thread.

Again we hope that this new format will help assist in basic questions and answers that our members may have. If you have any questions at all concerning the format or general questions conerning the forum please feel free to post them in our Interact with The Moderators Thread.

If you have asked a question in this forum and would like to clarify your question or ask a related question please click "new reply" in the thread you began. Your post will be sent to the staff for review and posting. Remember this is NOT a discussion forum. To open a full discussion please begin a new thread in the appropriate forum.

Please do not hesitate to contact a staff member if you have any questions. To view a list of the staff members please click on "the team" at the bottom of the index page and select Global Moderators.
Thank You.



Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:12 pm
Posts: 9
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Presbyterian
Name of your church: searching
I've been really struggling to understand the meaning of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit found in the Gospels. Most people say the sin is unpardonable not because it is worse than any other sin, but rather because it leaves the sinner incapable of repenting (cutting off the only Source of conviction and forgiveness). I still wonder, though, if the reason God won't forgive this might really be because it is something very offensive toward Him (I guess this is the fear of pretty much everyone who worries about this sin).

I've felt for a long time that I may have committed this sin--I have a history of struggling with religious OCD and after years of impulsive thoughts, I recall a time when I wondered "What if God is really Satan?" and fear He led me to the point where I committed this sin. I don't think it's merely having a fleeting thought or saying words; I fear it may be a case-by-case deal, and I fear God let me reach a low point where I did this after testing Him. And though a lot points to the sin being some sort of rejection, I still fear God won't forgive me.

I finally found temporary peace by discovering a passage in Acts 15. I'd never seen it connected (which made me doubt I was right), but in verse 5, some Pharisees were said to have believed (or at least were able to believe). That seemed to prove the sin was rejection; if it was a supreme offense against God, then surely these Pharisees would never have been able to become believers.

Now I fear those Pharisees were different from those in Matthew 12, Mark 3 and Luke 11-12....that they somehow weren't as bad. I also wonder about Paul (Saul), who found mercy though he was a blasphemer. They weren't guilty, though they all seemed to call God Satan. So, to me, rather than this meaning the sin must be rejection (assuming the Pharisees in the Gospels were guilty and the same on all other counts), it could still mean there's more to the unpardonable sin. The only obvious difference to me was that Saul and the Acts Pharisees weren't too hardened to be converted, so maybe this has something to do with it.

That would seem to mean the sin is some sort of rejection/hardness, but I go back to the fear that reaching some level of hard-heartedness (or, like I did, testing God to a certain point) would make for a supreme offense against Him.

So I fear that what Jesus was warning of in Matthew 12 was that the Pharisees could reach a point where their hearts were so hardened that they would then be offending God more than they would just by calling Him Satan. In other words, it's not a once or twice thing, but it becomes a real offense if your heart reaches a certain point. That seems to be the central concept of the whole rejection theory, so I wonder, why not for the supreme offense idea, too?

On one hand, it seems that's reading a bit much into the text, but then again, it also seems reasonable when you think about the fact that both Paul (Saul) and the Acts 15 Pharisees were not guilty, and they seemed to be the same as the Pharisees in the Gospels. It also seems a stretch to think that any regular Joe back then could be guilty of this by having a harder heart, while Pharisees were deemed not as bad.

So, (sorry for the long post), basically what I'm trying to find is: Is the Acts/Pharisees unpardonable sin connection reasonable and valid as far as proving the sin is rejection? Or could it be that since Paul and the Acts Pharisees were not guilty of this that they were different than those who were guilty, and that Jesus was not saying the Pharisees in the Gospels had committed this, but warning that they could if they reached a point where God said "Enough!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:43 pm 
Offline
Assistant Administrator

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:42 am
Posts: 1039
Location: Providence RI
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Non-denominational
Name of your church: in the car, one the way to work, lunch time, on the way home, in the dining room, in the bedroom, but current looking for a new church home
I had opportunity to ask my first pastor this very question. I had a history of cult involvement and occult involvement. Surely, I reasoned, I must have committed this unpardonable sin. To my great surprise he told me, "If you're worried about it, you've not committed it, for it involves a killing or searing of your conscience. It is dying without having received Jesus Christ as your savior, and having stubbornly refused the gift of salvation that God has offered."

I breathed quite bit easier after that.

_________________
MikeC1956
Asst Admin

know that your sin will find you out. Numbers 32:23b NET

Statement of beliefs
Code of Conduct
The Bible NETwork Blogs
The NeXt Bible Learning Environment
BeneSHOP: Help support Bible.org at no additional cost to you when you shop!

fides quarens intellectum, credo ut intelligam
faith seeking knowledge, believe to understand

all quotations are by bible translation indicated.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:45 pm
Posts: 17
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Methodist
Name of your church: Lake Hills Community Church
Hey DrumMan ~ I completely agree with MikeC and his pastor on this. As a pastor I have said the same thing to many people! I can tell that you are working on a thorough examination of the "unpardonable sin", so I am pasting in excerpts from three historic and established commentaries. I noted the one from Albert Barnes had an interesting perspective I had never considered. On a personal note: try to NEVER forget the nature of a God who is love, who understands mere human frailty as well as foolish, youthful and ignorant sins. He longs for us to come to Him far more than we can imagine. That being said, please consider that this is an entirely different class of rejection of Christ. Hope the commentaries help! (The underlines for emphasis, are mine.)

Adam Clarke
"...when the person obstinately attributed those works to the devil, which he had the fullest evidence could be wrought only by the Spirit of God. That this, and nothing else, is the sin against the Holy Spirit, is evident from the connection in this place, and more particularly from Mar_3:28-30."

Albert Barnes
"'Speaketh against the Holy Ghost' - The word “ghost” means “spirit,” and probably refers here to the “divine nature” of Christ - the power by which he performed his miracles. There is no evidence that it refers to the third person of the Trinity; and the meaning of the whole passage may be: 'He that speaks against me as a man of Nazareth - that speaks contemptuously of my humble birth, etc., may be pardoned; but he that reproaches my divine nature, charging me with being in league with Satan, and blaspheming the power of God manifestly displayed 'by me,' can never obtain forgiveness.'"

John Gill
"...but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, shall not be forgiven unto men: by which is meant, not every ignorant denial of, and opposition to his deity and personality; nor all resistance of him in the external ministry of the word; nor every sin that is knowingly and willfully committed; but it is a despiteful usage of the Spirit of grace, an opposing, contradicting, and denying the operations wrought, or doctrines revealed by him, against a man's own light and conscience, out of willful and obstinate malice, on purpose to lessen the glory of God, and gratify his own lusts: such was the sin of the Scribes and Pharisees; who, though they knew the miracles of Christ were wrought by the Spirit of God, yet maliciously and obstinately imputed them to the devil, with a view to obscure the glory of Christ, and indulge their own wicked passions and resentments against him; which sin was unpardonable at that present time, as well as under that dispensation then to come, when the Spirit of God was poured down in a more plenteous manner.

_________________
~ Mike Knapp, pastor
Lake Hills Community Church
http://www.lakehillsfmc.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:23 pm
Posts: 12
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Messianic Jewish
Name of your church: Just moved to a new state so I'm looking.
Greetings,

I've been a member here for quite a while but haven't posted in a long time. I saw this post and wanted to answer it because it was something that troubled me a lot for quite a while.

If you look at the context of Jesus making that statement, it sheds light on what "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is. The context is that Jesus had performed miracles. The Pharisees & the Sadducees who were against Him, knowing that Jesus performed these miracles by the Spirit of God. Knowing that it was of God that these miracles were performed, they attributed the miracles to Satan. That's the stage and circumstances that caused Jesus to make that very frightening statement.

The unpardonable sin is KNOWINGLY attributing or giving credit the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is willfully and knowingly crediting God’s act or miracle to Satan. It is not a misunderstanding, it is a purposeful act.

Hope that helps.

_________________
"If the guilt of sin is so great that nothing can satisfy it but the blood of Jesus; and the filth of sin is so great that nothing can fetch out the stain thereof but the blood of Jesus, how great, how heinous, how sinful must the evil of sin be." WILLIAM BRIDGE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 8:38 am
Posts: 1
Faith: Christian
Ecclesiology/Denomination: Non-denominational
Name of your church: Looking for a Church
What does the Holy Spirit do?

The Holy Spirit :
. speaks (Acts 13:2),
. intercedes (Romans 8:26),
. testifies (John 15:26)
. guides (John 16:13),
. commands (Acts 16:6,7),
. appoints (Acts 20:28),
. leads (Romans 8:14),
. reproves and convicts of sin (John 16:8).
. seals God's promise in believers' hearts (Ephesians 1:13-14)
. shapes the individual's and community's life to Christ's (Romans 8:1-17)
In Scripture, the Holy Spirit has intellect, emotions, and will, and can be grieved.

Blasphemy is the rejection of Jesus Christ. The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to bear witness of Jesus Christ (John 15:26).

A true Christian cannot commit this sin, only those who choose to reject Jesus Christ will be charged with Blasphemy.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group