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Well the book certainly is interesting so far. It does live up to it's name. We do explore some of the hard sayings of Jesus. Some because we don't understand and some because we understand them easily, but realize what they demand. For instance, in response to the saying, "If any one would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me", the book says, "Denying oneself is not a matter of giving up something, whether for Lent or for the whole of life: it is a decisive saying "No" to oneself, to one's hopes and plans and ambitions, to one's likes and dislikes, to one's nearest and dearest, for the sake of Christ."

It talks about cherished hope and loved one. We are to love Christ more then we love anyone here. That's tough. I don't have children but I bet that's tough. Forsaking one's self as talked about in the paragraph before this, that's tough too. Peter forsook his family to follow Jesus. They were dependant on Peter too. It's the same thing with money and material wealth and getting off those as a burden of life. To be a disciple, release those burdens. I guess it's why many are called, but few are chosen. Why the narrow path is so hard to follow.

Glad to hear you are liking the book. It sounds like I will definitely have to put it on my "to read" list. Do you not find it a little odd, though, that the author would sort of "dis" the entire idea of Lent? Maybe that is not what you meant by your paraphrase, but that is sort of what it sounded like. From his description of dying and giving up ones' self and will, it sounds like Lent would be perfect "practice" for the daily dying and living His will. Personally, I have found Lent to be very valuable to my spiritual walk.

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Well that wasn't a paraphrase, that was an actual excerpt. I'll be honest, I have no idea what Lent is. I'm still a learner and I'm still learning things.

So how do you kill yourself everyday and forsake your dreams, wealth, desires and family?

I think that is THE million dollar question for the Christian to ask him or herself every day. How can I align my will with the will of God TODAY? How can I be sure I am following His lead and not my own TODAY?

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Christ Follower

How do you do it? .... you can't do it, that is the point, that is why Jesus' language is so strong, to help us realize the hopelessness of our position, and our helplessness to help ourselves.

When we really see this, it is then that we throw ourselves on the mercy of God, and cry out "God, help me!" .... and surrender ourselves completely to our faithful God.

And that is a terrible deception by the devil ... that we have to give up everything .... yes we do, but only to receive them back again from the hand of God.

for instance : When you surrender your 'right' to those you love, when you no longer depending on them to meet your needs, then you are actually freed to love them better.

It is when we give up our lives to God, that we receive back life that is really living.

Basically it means trusting that God is good, and that He has your good in mind, no matter how things appear at the moment.

in Christ

Dinah

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I know. Yeah, I'm trying to let the Spirit allow me to surrender myself. I don't feel like I'm there yet. The book is interesting. Most of the hard sayings are concluded with "or you cannot enter the Kingdom of God". Seems to point out that these things need to be accomplished. That's a tough, narrow path.

Indeed ... the good news is that God signs us up for a lifetime course .... and the lessons begin on conversion, and continue until the Lord takes us home.

What is more, each lesson is repeated until we get it ... God is endlessly patient

The main thing is to love God with all your heart, trust Him to do for you what you cannot do, and then do what you can, and do your best ...

He knows your heart you see, He will know if you mean it or not.

And rejoice, because we are promised that the holidays will come ... and we will be perfect!

in Christ

Dinah

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dj, I'll take it to PMs with ya if I continue to take this off course. It's my fault. Just one more question and I think I'll be done bugging you.

How do we know that? How do we know we're only made completely perfect on the other side of this life? How do we know we're not really supposed to get it done completely while we're here? I know God is endlessly patient, but what if we can never get certain things because of either fear, sinfulness, weakness, etc.?

Christ Follower

that is why it is so desperately important to know your Bible ..... so that you know what God is like, what God expects of you, what a godly life looks like, and all of God's promises to us ...

This this one .... please read 1 Corinthians, chapter 13 .... first of all Paul describes what love looks like, and how important it is .... then he goes on :

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face.
How I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known .... "(1Cor.13:8-12 NIV)

and all of 1 John which speaks about how to live 'in the Light' ... or in other words, as a Christian.

".... and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (1Jn.1:7-9 NIV)

You see, all our sins are washed away by the blood of Christ, as we recognize them, confess them, and repent of them ....

and ....

"And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."(2 Cor.3:18 NIV)

So, that we will be finally and forever like Christ rests on God's promises .... like everything else.

in Christ

Dinah

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Most likely a better translation from the Greek of the word perfect there is mature. I would appreciate the book titles with you chapter and verse though, just to be sure.

Same difference in how I meant it. Full, complete, mature, perfect, finished... all of them could be words that would describe the greek word.

You can go to NEt and search them btw... for the record... no need to wait on me...

\The first one is Matthew 5. Where at the end Jesus describes love as God would love. Then he challenges us to be perfect as the father is perfect. Insert any word you want above, the message is the same. LOVE AS GOD LOVES. There is no context of "striving" there is no context of trying, or working towards, it's a call to love completely.
In 1 john 4, John uses a similar though in the early teens and shows its a sign of maturity.

The other is John 17, Jesus' prayer for the apostles and the rest of the world. That we could have UNITY with the father as HE did. IT's not talking about a unity AFTER THIS life either, unless you believe in the saints from the grave witnessing to people on earth. The reason for the Unity was for the impact it would have on the world we live in.

Harsh sayings that many dodge and run from.

They fear them because they can't achieve them. But moses couldn't cross the red sea either. And Noah never built an ark. Gideon wouldn't have charged with a pot and a horn. It's not about what you can do. It's about what HE can do. The verses stand as written. ONE a command nearly, the other an expectation.

be well.