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Has anyone read The Ultimate Proof of Creation by Jason Lisle? I am reading it now. It is essentially presuppositional apologetics applied to the creation/evolution debate. So far I am enjoying it, and I think it would make a fun discussion topic.

I think that you are reading some interesting books - I hope you will find someone with whom to converse.

John

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"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Gal 5:6b

Pastor John C. Blackburn

It does not follow the apologetics approach most commonly used today. Most people use a classical/evidential approach, but Lisle makes some good points in defending his approach. Does anyone know his theological leaning? Most, if not almost all, who favor presuppositional apologetics are Reformed.

I am a Baptist who attended a Brethren Seminary, but my professor, John C. Whitcomb, was heavily influenced by Cornelius Van Til - who taught at Westminster, a Presbyterian Seminary. So, I would agree.

John

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"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Gal 5:6b

Pastor John C. Blackburn

My formal education in apologetics was more classical, but most of my reading on the topic has been independent, including my reading in presuppositional apologetics.

Sounds like an interesting book. I am actually writing my Master's thesis on Genesis one (so I find the topic to be of great interest). I have personally come to believe in presuppositional apologetics only within the last three years (and this was ultimately due to discussions about apologetics where I heard and read various perspectives and models and felt presuppositionalism to be the most convincing). So what is your take on the book (if you would care to share with us)?

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I have only read a few chapters so far, but my reaction is positive so far, and it would be fun to discuss it while reading it. Over the past two years, off and on, I have read other sources in presuppositional apologetics by Greg Bahnsen, Gary Demar, and several by Francis Schaeffer. I have enjoyed all of them. I do not yet consider myself a full presuppositionalist, but I am open to it.

My only reservation is that I do not know how to apply it to other religions. Presuppositional apologetics is great when responding to atheism, but how do you apply it to Islam or Mormonism, for example? I saw an application to Islam online which did not impress me. I read one short book which was a presuppositional response to Mormonism which did not impress me (and that was after finishing my dissertation on Mormon soteriology). I welcome comments on how to apply presup to these and other areas.

On the other hand, I am enough in the presup camp to object to an exclusively classical/evidential approach because such an approach does not take full account of the noetic effects of the fall.

I am nearly finished with the book now. I am in the last appendix which applies the principles of the book to real emails sent to Answers in Genesis.

This book is, strictly speaking, less a book about defending creationism, and more about Bahnsenian presuppositional apologetics, but all the examples center around the evolution/creation debate. I think this is a great book for anyone who wants an overview of the presuppositional method.

Next week I will attend a debate between Dinesh D'Souza and Christopher Hitchens. To prepare for it I have started listening to one of their previous debates. During Hitchens' opening statement things I read about in the book were constantly popping up in my head. During the follow-up session, I saw areas where D'Souza could have addressed the root presuppositional issues but didn't.

This book will be helpful when I watch them debate next week.

Henry, how did the debate go?

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The room was packed, but neither speaker was impressive.

Too bad. It sounded like it would be really good.

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Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!

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