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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:19 am 
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To say that Christianity isn't logical is to say that it is illogical, and I wouldn't agree with that assessment. Christianity is not naturalistic and it does require faith, but having studied the faith for some 35 years I believe it is perfectly logical. Nevertheless, you are correct that one cannot simply choose to believe in Christ on a whim because such belief, biblically speaking, is much more than an intellectual exercise. It is much more than mere mental assent to the teachings of Scripture.

Believing in Jesus Christ unto salvation (believing in the biblical sense) is an act of the whole person (rationally, emotively, and volitionally) that involves completely entrusting oneself to him, loving him, and obeying him as Lord and Savior. No one can choose to do that apart from the enabling power of God's grace, as Jesus said in John 6:44.

    "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."

The only way that you or I or anyone else can believe in the Lord Jesus (biblically) is if God extends his grace to us and through the power of his Holy Spirit enables us to believe. It comes back to that personal encounter with God that I spoke of earlier.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:57 am 
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One can say that something is not logical without affirming that it is illogical. It is not logical to like chocolate because liking chocolate is a matter of taste but liking chocolate is not illogical. Similarly liking, loving, disliking, and hating need not be logical or illogical.

Accepting Christianity need not be logical - I think that for most Christians it is not a matter of logic - yet it need not be illogical either. The grace of faith can be aided by reason and logic but it is not necessary to have a reasoned and logical basis for belief before one can believe the gospel.

Scripture advises, in one instance, that a person should taste and see that the Lord is good; this is a formal way of saying what we would say colloquially as “suck it and see”. Tasting to see that the Lord is good is a far cry from saying check all the data, test it for logical consistency, reason carefully and then you will arrive at the conclusion that God is good.

Cheers

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:09 pm 
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There seems to be a "get it" factor, if you will, and it CAN be over-intellectualized.
This helped me (personally) not long ago:

http://www.fbccs.org/resources/messages/970302.asp

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:18 pm 
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PS the same pastor has just started a NEW series here:

http://www.crossroadsbible.org/online/questions.htm

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:49 pm 
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DB,

You are quite right that it is not necessary to have a reasoned and logical basis for belief before one can believe the gospel. But, and I don't want to get bogged down here, liking or disliking chocolate is a matter of personal taste and preference. On the other hand, the Christian faith (what we believe) is essentially a set of propositional truths. Whereas few people expect personal dietary tastes to be logical, most do expect propositional truths to be logical. I will readily acknowledge that living out the Christian faith does not always seem logical, but in that case it is only because we do not have full knowledge. We do not always know what God will do or what his purpose is. We may not know all that God has revealed in Scripture. And even what is revealed in Scripture is by no means full disclosure of God and his purposes. Thus some things that God requires of us, and even some doctrines of Christianity, may at times appear to be illogical, but only to one whose paradigm is inadequate. But this is only an intellectual defense of Christianity which is by no means a faith limited to the intellectual realm. And as you have observed, recognizing the logic of the Christian faith or even the gospel is not essential to believing in Christ. In fact, the Apostle Paul characterized the message of the cross as one that appeared to be foolishness. Yet it is a message so simple that even a little child can understand it.

    Luke 10:21 21 On that same occasion Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your gracious will. Context (NET)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:22 am 
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Gideon wrote:
the Christian faith (what we believe) is essentially a set of propositional truths. Whereas few people expect personal dietary tastes to be logical, most do expect propositional truths to be logical.

Gideon wrote:
this is only an intellectual defense of Christianity which is by no means a faith limited to the intellectual realm. And as you have observed, recognizing the logic of the Christian faith or even the gospel is not essential to believing in Christ.

Sometimes vocabulary can betray our intended meaning; I am going to presume that you do [or did] not intend to say that both a set of intellectual propositions are essential to Christian faith and that recognition of the logic of the Christian faith is not essential to Christian faith.

A relationship of union with Christ [which is usually marked by trust in Christ] is essential to Christian faith whereas any particular set of propositional truths is unlikely to be absolutely essential/necessary to Christian faith. After all, some people who have a living faith in Jesus Christ have only a limited capacity to know/understand propositional truths.

Cheers

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:06 am 
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You are quite right DB. Apparently I wasn't clear in what I wrote. The expression "the Christian faith" is often used with reference to the doctrines of Christianity, and more particularly the core doctrines, rather than faith in Christ per se. I tried to clarify what I meant, saying "what we believe." When I said the Christian faith (what we believe) is essentially a set of propositional truths I meant that the doctrines or teachings which constitute what we call "the faith" are in essence a set of propositional truths. The gospel, which one must believe in order to have a relationship with Christ, is part of the faith but only a small part.

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