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 Post subject: Re: Chrislam revisited
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Yahweh1 wrote:
Just curious IF peter and John and paul would have preached jesus the child of God, or as JUST the Messiah minus divine attributes, knowing that the jewish rulers would be offended by him if called the Son of God?


No need to wonder, we are told that they did preach Jesus as the Son of God, even when it so offended the religious leaders that it lead to their own persecution and even their death.


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 Post subject: Re: Chrislam revisited
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Just wondering what happened to the church today if we feel that we have to 'tone down" the message of the Gospel?


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 Post subject: Re: Chrislam revisited
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Benelchi wrote:
Yahweh1 wrote:
Just curious IF peter and John and paul would have preached jesus the child of God, or as JUST the Messiah minus divine attributes, knowing that the jewish rulers would be offended by him if called the Son of God?


No need to wonder, we are told that they did preach Jesus as the Son of God, even when it so offended the religious leaders that it lead to their own persecution and even their death.



Good point. Specifically, when the Sanhedrin told Peter andf John to stop preaching in the name of Jesus, ther reply is recorded in Acts 4:18-21.

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 Post subject: Re: Chrislam revisited
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Umm, I think the question was rhetorical. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Chrislam revisited
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:52 pm 
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The following are questions posed in the article http://biblicalmissiology.org/2012/03/27/idolatry-in-the-modern-missions-movement/


Can a Truly Saved Christian:

Endorse Islam as a true revelation of God, not a false idol religion?

Acknowledge Muhammad to be in any way a prophet of God?

Acknowledge in any way that the Qur’an is inspired by God or is Holy?

Say that a verbal confession of faith in Jesus Christ is unnecessary for salvation?

Tell Muslims that they can retain their Muslim identity and be a ‘True followers of Christ’, even encouraging them to remain Muslim?

Say the Shahada (Islamic confession of faith: “There is no god but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God” ) or tell new ‘believers” that they can say the Shahada?

Join in the Salat (Islamic Daily prayers) bowing to the Kaba in Mecca, to the recitation of Koranic verses, or encourage new believers to do so?

Take the pilgrimage to Mecca (Hajj) or encourage new “believers” to do so?

Change any wording in the Scriptures especially to make it non-offensive to Muslims?

Share the Gospel of Christ but leave out His death, burial, and resurrection; that He is fully God and fully man; that He is the Son of God, that God is a Father; and leave out the need for repentance on purpose so as not to offend the Muslim?

Condone any of the above practices?


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 Post subject: Re: Chrislam revisited
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:12 pm 
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The Assemblies of God has followed the PCA in taking a stand against Wycliffe's Muslim Idiomatic Translations. Here is their statement.

For many years Assemblies of God World Missions has partnered in ministry with Wycliffe Bible Translators. While some missionaries are appointed by AGWM to do Bible translation for specific and unique reasons, most of those with a specific calling to Scripture translation are assigned to Wycliffe. The AG World Missions Executive Committee made this determination because of the highly specialized nature of Bible translation into other languages. Presently 35 AG missionaries work with Wycliffe.

In the last year the propriety of this long-held partnership has come into question for the first time. A major factor in this issue is how the Scriptures are translated for Muslim readers. Nearly every Muslim has heard the name of Jesus. Most even revere Him as a sinless prophet. But they think of Him only as a human being—not as God the Son.

Communicating God’s Word for Muslims presents challenges regarding their beliefs concerning the Trinity and Jesus as the Son of God. Consequently, some translations designed for Muslim readers remove familial terms, such as Father, Son, Son of God, Son of the Living God and Son of Man, from the text. In their place, alternative terms are used, such as “Beloved of God,” a familiar Arabic Muslim characterization often used when referring to Muhammad.

Wycliffe addresses its translation standards on its ministry website: “In certain circumstances, specifically where it has been demonstrated that a literal translation of ‘Son of God’ would communicate wrong meaning, an alternative form with equivalent meaning may be used.” The problem arises in what is meant by communicating “wrong meaning” and “equivalent meaning.”

AGWM missionary leaders, missiologists and scholars have met twice with leaders of Wycliffe and its partner ministry, Summer Institute of Linguistics (SIL), to deal with the increasing disagreement concerning Bible translation practices.

Dr. Mark Hausfeld, director of Global initiative—Reaching Muslim Peoples, a ministry of AGWM, states, “Initially, familial language in the Bible is offensive to Muslims because the Qur’an and their religious instruction teach them not to apply such words as ‘Son’ and ‘Father’ to God. Our responsibility as followers of Jesus is to build relationships from which we can instruct Muslims in the truth of such familial terms from the biblical text as translated from the original languages. There is no need to change biblical language to try to help the Holy Spirit bring the Muslim to the understanding of the inspired text.”

Dr. Greg Mundis, AGWM executive director, says, “Our Fellowship is deeply committed to the integrity of Scripture. I believe we have done due diligence in researching, reflecting and searching both the Scriptures and our hearts. This places us in a position in which we cannot agree with Wycliffe/SIL’s stated and publicized position.”

AGWM has established a four-month review period until May 15, at which time a final decision will be made concerning its ongoing relationship with Wycliffe/SIL. The consequences could include asking AG personnel to leave Wycliffe/SIL, recommending that AG churches withdraw financial support for Wycliffe/SIL personnel, and engaging in translation ministry with other organizations holding a position on Bible interpretation comparable with AGWM convictions.

Dr. George Wood, general superintendent of the U.S. Assemblies of God, says, “Our Fellowship is unrelentingly committed to the authority and infallibility of Scripture. While we appreciate the challenges missionaries and translators face in intercultural communication, we will neither compromise nor dilute God’s eternal truth, nor change its intended plain meaning.”

In this challenging issue concerning Bible translation, AG World Missions leadership approaches this four-month time of review with fervent prayer and determination that our mission will neither compromise concerning the truth of God’s Word nor communicate inaccurately the nature of God the Father and His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.


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 Post subject: Re: Chrislam revisited
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:31 am 
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Just curious what other religious group had jesus "accomodated" to their preferences as regarding how to view him?


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 Post subject: Re: Chrislam revisited
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Yahweh1 wrote:
Just curious what other religious group had jesus "accomodated" to their preferences as regarding how to view him?


It has been primarily happening with Islam, but it is spreading to many other religious context.


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 Post subject: Re: Chrislam revisited
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Here is a short video that does a very good describing the C5 contextualization issue and provides strong documentation for what is being taught.

EVERY CHRISTIAN SHOULD WATCH IT!


http://vimeo.com/mstephan/pastorsnellim


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 Post subject: Re: Chrislam revisited
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:18 pm 
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The link I provided to the video doesn't seem to work for some people. Here is a different link that is more reliable.

http://biblicalmissiology.org/2011/07/2 ... st-heresy/


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 Post subject: Re: Chrislam revisited
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:11 am 
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WEA to Form Independent Review Panel on Wycliffe and SIL Bible Translation


In the light of certain controversies about Bible translation, the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA), as a respected and trusted global evangelical association, has been asked to form a panel to independently review Wycliffe and SIL International’s translation of “God the Father” and the “Son of God.”

“Rejoicing that many Christians globally do not have to learn Hebrew or Greek to read God’s Word and wishing to strengthen Evangelical unity on the basis of God’s Word, the WEA has agreed to facilitate an independent external audit of Wycliffe and SIL International’s practice of the translation of “God the Father” and the “Son of God”,” said Dr. Geoff Tunnicliffe, Secretary General of the WEA.

Wycliffe Global Alliance and SIL International as organizations dedicated to the accurate translation of God’s Word are committed to applying this review’s recommendations. The panel’s mandate includes reviewing SIL’s translation practices; setting boundaries for theologically acceptable translation methodology particularly in Muslim contexts; and suggesting how to practically implement these recommendations.

Facilitated by the WEA, this transparent and independent review will be conducted by a global panel of respected Evangelical theologians, biblical scholars, translators, linguists and missiologists, and will include representation of national believers from countries with majority Muslim populations and mature followers of Christ from Muslim backgrounds.

Reports throughout the process, as well as the final report, will be sent to Wycliffe and SIL International. The intention is that the panel’s final report will be delivered by the end of the year 2012.


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