The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

I am a protestant and have family members in various denominations of the Church.
Some Charismatic, some methodists etc. But the one that has stumped me is that my grandfather claims to be a born again Christian but still goes to a Catholic Church.

Do you think this is weird?

After becoming born again my grandfathers first response was to tell his priest and ask him why he had never been taught this in his Church. The priests response was that this born again thing was just a "Phase" and that he would soon get over it.

Is that weird ? I'm after a bit of perspective. This is all I really know about Catholicism.

_________________
http://aworthydiscussion.wordpress.com

Grant:

Weird? Not at all. There are quite a number of born-again believers who are Catholic.

I'd recommend your emphasis with your grandfather be in rejoicing in his new faith and encouraging him to read Scripture, and showing him acceptance, kindness and respect. He's already shown an inclination to question his religious traditions, so that's something to build on as you encourage him to think for himself with the Spirit's guidance.

The priest's response is amusing to me. That's just what my father's priest told him about my newfound faith 36 years ago. Still strongly in that phase...

This push for the "born again" concept isn't very old.

And if you go to scripture, I think it's grossly misunderstood and misused. I think the born again, might deal with a level of sanctification. But I"ll stir up the pot on that one. I tried to have this conversation with one of the people here, but I'm guessing my rebuttals were a bit more than they anticipated and they stopped the comments.

The point is, "born again" is only a concept that is a few generations old. AND many people claim they are born again after an altar call and a magic bath. Do you really think tha tis all it takes?

grant, I know believers who are Catholics too.
And there are some charismatic Catholics too.

_________________
Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

I dont think we're on the same page here, let me clarify what I meant by that. I meant he told the priest that "No one had ever told him that having faith in Jesus Christ was neccesary for salvation" and by saying that the priest told him that his was just a phase.



I think you're onto it there - my response to his faith is very important and by being narrow minded about where he goes to church I could in fact drive him further away. Possibly a good parralel for the old Sun and Wind proverb. Shine your light so that men may see your good works and glorify your father in heaven !

_________________
http://aworthydiscussion.wordpress.com

Grant, take a look at this link

http://www.lutheranworld.org/Special_Ev ... ation.html


There is common ground between Protestants and Catholics, both affirming that we are saved by faith.

_________________
Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

Yes I spose so, but I remember a lecture by Cornelius Venema - he said that he was not afraid of the Pelagian doctrine because no protestant in their right mind believes Roman Catholics hold to a completely works based salvation. But he did say he was terrified of the semi-pelagian doctrines which the Roman Catholic Church seemed to hold to.
That is Salvation by Grace through faith is a good start - but the believer needs to maintain that salvation and persevere to the end....

He brought up a good point. I agree that there is some common ground between Protestants and Catholics. But in the same way there is common ground between Calvinists and Arminians - both believe in a form of Predestination, both sides limit the atonement in some way, both believe in Grace in some form. Common ground is a good start but it should not be our end point. Thats why I like the Theology programme doing theology in an Irenic way (presenting all view points in a peaceful way even if you don't agree) but also taking a stand on issues and giving solid reasons why they disagree with certain positions.

_________________
http://aworthydiscussion.wordpress.com

The whole works thing from the catholics is misunderstood and often misrepresented. However, they bring some of that on themselves. I think the biggest failure of the Church of Rome is not to engage their people better. Although I know some extremely well engaged catholics. What I mean is this. They would never say that works saves you. However that is often what I hear told as what they believe.

Scripture says we are saved for works, not by works.
It says that works help mature us.
It was recommended in nearly every Epistle from Paul to continue in the good works.
There is a reason for those good works, that we may not see, but God can use. (my thought there.)

In most protestant Churches they rebel against the works shouting WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE NOT BY WORKS, and forget to read the verse that finishes that thought of paul's off that brings works right back into it.

I think there is such a workphobia that people miss out on their maturation opportunities as a result and that is a travesty. The early church was very works based, and that was the people associated most closely to the Apostles. Think about this, if we were made to be "tools/instruments of Righteousness" and we are never used because we won't get out of the toolbox, then did we ever commit to God in the first place.

Or if he is Lord then why do we not produce for Him as the vassals of the Lords have done since history was recorded?

So I think some peeps tend to lash out at the cathoics as its an easy target, and MANY catholics, perhaps priests and bishops as well, let people get a bit outta line on that topic. It's just one more wedge Satan uses to keep us disunified.

bd

[quote="granttheking98"]I am a protestant and have family members in various denominations of the Church.
Some Charismatic, some methodists etc. But the one that has stumped me is that my grandfather claims to be a born again Christian but still goes to a Catholic Church.

Do you think this is weird?

After becoming born again my grandfathers first response was to tell his priest and ask him why he had never been taught this in his Church. The priests response was that this born again thing was just a "Phase" and that he would soon get over it.

[quote]Is that weird ? I'm after a bit of perspective. This is all I really know about Catholicism. Sorry to bluntly put it= Catholicism is not entirely Christanity hence the misunderstanding, "Born again" is a classification of spiritual Christian standing that comes about when one occupies ones'self in deligent scripture understanding. Of those Catholics who are engaged and understand the works thing, they have invested this far to get where they are.

I have no idea what you're going on about here mate, could you please explain what you mean?
If you believe born again means "One occupies ones'self in diligent scripture understanding" I dont get what you're saying.
I dont think thats correct - I think when someone says they are born again they are referring to being regenerate, a new creation in Christ.

_________________
http://aworthydiscussion.wordpress.com

Look I think you've hit the nail on the head, and unfortunately I think is the one of the backlashes and legacies we live with from the reformation. We've gotten so worked up over getting people to cross some immaginary line to become a Christian, that some little part within you gets saved. But really this is what I mean by Born Again. Sorry if thats what people have thought.

I think you're both right and wrong on the satan using this for disunity. Yes it can be between believers, but how much unity are we supposed to have with people that have (in my view) very heretical beliefs?? Ok maybe I should say very unorthodox beliefs. Therein lies the balance. Heresies are also great at splitting a Church or destroying relationships, or being a wedge as you called it.

_________________
http://aworthydiscussion.wordpress.com

grant,

have you looked any further into Catholicism, or the modern view of what it is to be "born again"? it might shed some light on what your grandfather is seeing and experiencing. also, i find it interesting how your quote of the priest has changed during this thread. do you know exactly WHAT your grandfather asked him, HOW he asked him, and what exactly the priest said in response?

you might do well to look into the modern view of "born again" as opposed to the view of the majority of Christians for virtually 2,000 years that preceded the modern view. not that the modern view is completely wrong. i am not saying that. i just think it is incomplete, as are many theological systems today.

_________________
in Christ,

bp

I am a life-long Roman Catholic who would love to share my "born again" experience within the Roman Catholic Church...if anyone is interested...

_________________
..."Absence of evidence" is not "Evidence of absence"...

A dear friend of mine was born a Jew, became a believer, a Charismatic, and a Roman Catholic. I have no doubt about that friend's relationship with Jesus.

_________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29

Eutychus,

I was waiting for the punchline...a Jew, a Charismatic and a Roman Catholic...!

Campion

_________________
Contemplare et contemplata aliis tradere. - St. Thomas Aquinas