The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

I had a question in another thread that was locked and I was wondering if I can continue it. It's the last post in this thread and it went over verses for the Catholics and confessions. His main point was what John said in chapter 20:21-23. My Study Bible actually says that this is really literally translated as "Those whose sins you forgive have already been forgiven; those whose sins you do not forgive have not been forgiven." My Bible notes say that those who proclaim the gospel are in effect forgiving or not forgiving sins, depending on whether the hearers accept or reject Jesus Christ. Matthew 16:19 and 18:18 seem to say the same thing that's not meant to be taken so literally. What do you think? Did God really chose to do forgive through the ordained men of the priesthood and the Sacrament of Reconciliation that He Himself instituted?

Confessing our sins to one another is indeed a biblical concept. (See James 5:16) But no man, clergy or layman, has the authority to forgive sins. This authority rests with Jesus Christ alone. However, we, as His ambassadors, i.e. His representatives, here on this earth, have been given the message of reconciliation. (See 2 Corinthians 5:18-21) That means that we are to proclaim that forgiveness for sins is available through Jesus Christ because of what He did on the cross, and we, clergy and laymen alike, can say with all certainty that a person's sins have been forgiven if they have confessed them before Jesus Christ. (See 1 John 1:9) And that is not because of any inherent authority of our own, but because of the authority of Jesus Christ and the Word that testifies about the forgiveness available through Him.

I think that corporate confession is a neglected part of corporate worship. If we read throughout the Psalms and through other parts of the OT narrative, we see that one part of their corporate worship experience was the confession of sins. When was the last time that we, as the people of God, came before Him in our Sunday services and corporately confessed, mourned, weeped for our sinfulness in worship? When was the last time we lamented over the sinfulness of our nation before God as a part of our Sunday morning services?

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For to me, living is Christ and dying is gain. Phil. 1:21

All scripture quotations are HCSB unless otherwise noted.

The passages you mentioned are:
John 20:

Matthew 16

and Matthew 18:


In the first and third quote, Jesus is speaking to multiple disciples. In the second He is speaking to Peter. My personal opinion is that the second passage was said by Jesus specifically to increase the acceptability (among Jews) of opening the church to the Gentiles.

I don't see anything that could be viewed as creating a priesthood as mediators between God and man. We also have this passage:

1 Timothy 2:


We also have an absence of any records of the early church creating a set of priests to forgive sins. Forgiveness comes from confessing our sins, believing, and accepting Christ.

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Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

I don't have the time right now but perhaps a study of what "afihmi" means here in John 20:23 would be helpful. It can mean "depart" "send away" "forgive" "remit" and a whole host of other things.

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Στηθι εδραιος, ως ακμων τυπτομενος. - Ignatius |II Timothy 4:2| All Scripture is NKJV, unless a translation from the Greek text or otherwise noted.
M.A. Theological Studies (New Testament), Faith Seminary, Tacoma WA
Member, Evangelical Theological Society, North American Patristics Society.
Assistant Editor and contributing author of several published and forthcoming publications.

I would love that. Thanks.

Thank you for the responses so far as well.

Absolutely.
Jesus gave this authority to his disciples when He said, "As the Father has sent me, so I send YOU," and "Recieve the Holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU forgive are forgiven, and whose sins YOU retain are retained." So if you argue that his disciples do not have authority, then inevitably you also imply that Christ had no authority, because they were sent by Christ as Christ was sent by the Father. (See John 20:21-23)
Those who are ordained also have the MINISTRY of reconciliation. (See 2 Cor 5:18) The message includes the ministry (service and functions) which were given to the disciples by Jesus in John 20:21-23.

Hi Christ Follower,
Of course your Bible says that, because it conflicts with general non-Catholic theology to take it at face value.
Jesus did die on the cross for our sins, and his was an eternal sacrifice. But we still have to repent of our sins to be forgiven. Even Jesus says so, in the Lord's Prayer:


The prayer and the verses following it clearly state that we are to pray to ask God to forgive us our sins, and if we don't we aren't forgiven. Those hearing the gospel and "accepting Jesus (as Lord)" would mean that they accept everything Jesus says, including the "Our Father", which is crystal clear about what it takes to have our sins forgiven, which is repentance and forgiving others.

In John 20:20-22, Jesus is breathing power into the apostles, just as God breathed life into Adam. He is giving them the power to forgive sins, a power that comes from God.

So God can forgive sins, and those with Apostolic authority can forgive sins. Because Jesus gave them the power to and told them to do it.

God Bless,

Andre