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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:18 pm 
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If you think that historic differences in opinion and later interpretation of those opinions makes something uncertain then would it not follow that Jesus' life & existence is uncertain and that therefore the whole Christian enterprise is uncertain.

There's always a fly in the ointment for those who are seeking to find one.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:49 pm 
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DailyBread wrote:
32k wrote:
Perhaps I should then ask, What does Scripture state about how one is saved?
My bible is about 2,200 pages long - it would be unhelpful to recite it here. The best summary I can give is to refer you to the four gospels.

I cannot imagine that the first century Christians, when asked how one might be saved, simply handed the potential convert a complete Bible -- especially since the complete Bible wasn't even compiled yet.

There must be some way to distill Scripture's teaching on salvation into a readily conveyable presentation. If someone approached you and asked, "What must I believe in order to be saved?" -- how would you answer?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:12 pm 
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Daily Bread,

I am not attempting to be dogmatic in hindsight, perhaps further proofing may lead to that, be that it may be between differing branches of Christianity. I wondering if being under papal authority, does one aka Catholic, assume salvation to be administered to the laity by the clergy, part and parcel for belief. That is belief in papal succession, whether or not church history may otherwise indicate.


Interesting enough Obadiah, the simplest and purest form was, believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved. At that point in time it is conceivable a few NT texts may have circulated but by and far the OT was abundantly available, synagogues…

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:45 pm 
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Obadiah wrote:
DailyBread wrote:
32k wrote:
Perhaps I should then ask, What does Scripture state about how one is saved?
My bible is about 2,200 pages long - it would be unhelpful to recite it here. The best summary I can give is to refer you to the four gospels.

I cannot imagine that the first century Christians, when asked how one might be saved, simply handed the potential convert a complete Bible -- especially since the complete Bible wasn't even compiled yet.

There must be some way to distill Scripture's teaching on salvation into a readily conveyable presentation. If someone approached you and asked, "What must I believe in order to be saved?" -- how would you answer?
Saint Paul replied to such a question by saying believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household with you. Paul ,then preached the gospel of the Lord to the man and his family and then baptised the man and his family, and presumably the man and his family joined themselves to the church in Philippi and learned the truth of gospel by word of mouth and by action.

I don't recall ever seeing a list of essentials in the bible, do you?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:39 am 
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DailyBread wrote:
Saint Paul replied to such a question by saying believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household with you. Paul then preached the gospel of the Lord to the man and his family and then baptised the man and his family, and presumably the man and his family joined themselves to the church in Philippi and learned the truth of gospel by word of mouth and by action.

I don't recall ever seeing a list of essentials in the bible, do you?


Acts 16:31 would be a great answer to this question if the text specified what elements of "the word of the Lord" Paul shared with them. But it doesn't.

I'm not looking for a list of essentials -- just what you would have told the Philippian jailor had you been in Paul's sandals.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:50 am 
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Had I been there I would have heard Paul preaching the Lord to the man and then I'd know what kind of message Paul preached in such circumstances. I don't see much value in speculating on what I would say in such a situation. Do you?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:05 am 
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In regard to salvation I would like to share my signature verse.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:20 am 
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DailyBread wrote:
Had I been there I would have heard Paul preaching the Lord to the man and then I'd know what kind of message Paul preached in such circumstances. I don't see much value in speculating on what I would say in such a situation. Do you?

When I asked you what you would have said to that man, what I was really getting at is what you would say to a man who approached you today with the same question.

I think there's a great deal of value in knowing how to answer a person who is inquiring of you as to how he might attain salvation, don't you?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:27 am 
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Obadiah wrote:
DailyBread wrote:
Saint Paul replied to such a question by saying believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household with you. Paul then preached the gospel of the Lord to the man and his family and then baptised the man and his family, and presumably the man and his family joined themselves to the church in Philippi and learned the truth of gospel by word of mouth and by action.

I don't recall ever seeing a list of essentials in the bible, do you?


It seems to me that the answer to the question lies here..since paul was in the position to speak to the jailer,maybe you should ask the lord what words he would have dailybread speak to the jailer since it was such an important meeting that it was included in the word..maybe im missing something but im not seeing a list either..


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:06 am 
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When the Lord grants an opportunity to share the gospel with others I pray asking him to give the words and wisdom needed to help the people to whom I speak. I don't ask for wisdom and words to speak to the Philippian jailer because I am not speaking to him. He is already with God in heaven. He knows the words far better than you or I.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:18 pm 
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DailyBread wrote:
If you think that historic differences in opinion and later interpretation of those opinions makes something uncertain then would it not follow that Jesus' life & existence is uncertain and that therefore the whole Christian enterprise is uncertain.

There's always a fly in the ointment for those who are seeking to find one.

I know we are not going anywhere with this. I had hoped for some dialogue in this matter of salvation as defined by the Roman Catholicism since you are representing the Catholic view in all matters. First no offence to you, we share the same faith differing roads but only one destination. As Rupertus Meldenius said, “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty and in all things charity.” If a continuation of papal authority is not part of the salvific process, then I have misrepresented the view as part of tradition concerning church matters in the Catholic sense. As I understood it, tradition is pointing to salvation not the actual process. Of course from a Protestant point of view one could say “an effectual calling” necessitates salvation.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:57 pm 
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DailyBread wrote:
32k wrote:
Perhaps I should then ask, What does Scripture state about how one is saved?
My bible is about 2,200 pages long - it would be unhelpful to recite it here. The best summary I can give is to refer you to the four gospels.

Hi DB,

As Obadiah pointed out, this is unhelpful.

Besides, if I remember correctly, the Church holds the true teaching of the Bible, therefore any conclusion I make may be skewed.

Perhaps I should word my question differently, what do you believe is necessary for salvation? Believing in the Lord Jesus? If so, what does that look like?

Anyways, if you're just going to give the same response then please don't bother answering (no indignation intended). On the other hand if you don't know, then that's also an acceptable answer.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:10 pm 
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DB

aren't you being unnecessarily coy? .... if you are a RC (as you are) .... why not state what you must (if you are a RC) by necessity believe?

Why don't you answer the question? ....

If someone asked you "what must I do to be save?" what would you say to them?

and since I am asking for honesty here .... I would say :

"you must believe that Jesus Christ is God/the Son of God, who came to this earth to save human beings like you and me, because we are estranged from God and cannot find our own way back to God."

once this is accepted, then of course I would say ... "this leads to other things you need to think hard about, because they are all part of the picture of Christianity."

or words to that effect, as you rightly say it depends on the other person and the leading of the Spirit.

in Christ

Dinah

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:00 pm 
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Reading through all the back and forth in this thread, I'm reminded of the scripture in Matt. 7:13-14, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it".

In accordance with this scripture, spoken by Christ Himself, there are only two roads we can travel on-and one of these two leads to destruction, leaving only one road leading to life, on which the few, not the many, travel.

Whether one likes this or not, the scripture is quite plain. It seems a great many folks in our culture today think there are several different roads leading to life (heaven). This may play with Ophrah but is contrary to the scripture.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:33 pm 
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I don't see the relevance of your statement to this thread, Jack.

dcljoy, I have no intention of entering into speculative conversations with imaginary people. I've answered the questions put. If you don't like the answers that is for you to deal with.

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