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I'll admit it, I think the Harry Potter novels are brilliant. They are both good fun, and at the same time deal in surprisingly deep ways with some pretty serious issues. I have developed quite a respect for J.K., especially since her comments about her faith after writing book seven.
Anyways, I just wanted to see what other people thought about the series...?

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“In the Church of Jesus Christ there can and should be no non-theologians"

http://www.newwaystheology.blogspot.com/

I personally never have watched the series or read the books, strange I guess since I am a big fan of J.R.Tolkiens books.
But, to me Tolkien’s books suggest the epic quest to explore the unknown and yet traveling familiar ground set in a 20's-30's kind of mind frame, were as the Harry potters reflects a more postmodernist mindset.
You kind of see the good and the evil play out there roles in Tolkien’s works, but were as Harry potter's tutorage in witchcraft kind of sets a different genre, one I think innocently enough can lead young people into believing witchcraft, wiccans and mother earth mentalities which can be straying away from biblical principals and thus give the impression it's ok, when it's not. There is a lot of it going on with the young people. A quick link searching harmlessly for say a school paper on the witches of Salem will have literally thousands of hits to other not so innocent sites that dive deeper into the dark realm. Now I’m not suggesting Harry Potter is a cause, but teaching young people in a school of wizardry is a little troubling IMO, especially little children, do you think so?

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

An ironic reply from one who has a wizard as his avatar...

I know many people who share / shared you skepticism about the Harry Potter books, and to be honest I would say a good 90% of the people I hear oppose it at some point mention as you did that they've never read the books or seen the films. I feel like that is a pretty poor basis to go off of, just 2nd hand information and the terrified rantings of certain hyper uptight radio hosts (not that I have any in mind...). To my own shame I too was not really happy about the books for the same reason, until I read them and realized how off base these criticisms really are. Indeed, the 'wizardry' of Harry Potter has about as much negitive impact or real wizardry as Lord of the Rings or the Narnia books.
I too love Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit, the Silmarilian etc. read them incessently, but in all honesty I think that the Harry Potter books has every bit the redemptive qualities and moral challenges of the Tolkien works though obviously they are different on a literary/stylistic level.

_________________
“In the Church of Jesus Christ there can and should be no non-theologians"

http://www.newwaystheology.blogspot.com/

Hello,
First, I have read all seven books multipile times. I think that the fact that witchcraft is taught is simply a part of the plot. It is the underlying messages that are relevant. For example, lessons of loyalty, standing up for one's beleifs, and all kinds of themes are dealt with.
I think that this is a great series for kidss that will not harm their Christian faith. If anything, it should encourage it through its symbolism ofPotter being good, and Voldimort evil. However, the one lesson that stuck with me after reading all the books was this: People are human, and can be neither completely good, nor completely evil. What I mean to express is an evil person, or unbeliever may do good things, and a good person is capable of evil things.
his is not a harmful series to chldren.
jmho,
Child of grace

It was and is my last avatar, had no clue what an avatar was, it was an easy pick.

I think the question is not so much to do with you or I in how we percieve the world and especially what is required of a Christian world view. Now before we get a wee bit off base and aquire a legalistic ideal, I will say in the context of

Deut. 18:10-14
There shall not be found among you anyone xwho burns his son or his daughter as an offering,5 anyone who ypractices divination or ztells fortunes or interprets omens, or aa sorcerer 11 or a charmer or ba medium or a necromancer or cone who inquires of the dead, 12 dfor whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And ebecause of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. 13 You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, 14 for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this.

We seem to have a problem is it right or wrong? Now it is just a movie as is Lord of the Rings, no discerment here other than the era of literary imagination & style. My only point is a young child can be impressed with the magic and all that it conjures up and could desire to search a little deeper and then what. I'll tell you what, a child lost without a clear understanding of the Bible. Its happening every day. I understand in the West, we take things for granted and seem to think things are harmless, but in reality we are losing the reality and onenality (that's not a word I know ) because our childern are losing the spiritual Christ centered battle againist all the seemingly harmless TV and movies. Whether we see it or not it is happening at an alarming rate. I can grant this a child that is of accountable & knowledge age, is able to discern reality from fantasy and hopefully is bibilically tutored in the Christian faith to know the difference. Other than that you can watch what ever is right for you and I the same, no harm in that, really. My only beef is what we allow our young childern to watch and absorb, you know they are like little sponges

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Childofgrace,
Appreciate your contribution, and very much agree that the underlying messages of good verses evil, and at the same time how hard it can be to draw those lines when it comes to people (like Snape, good, bad, good for bad reasons…?) are very valuable, even and perhaps especially to children. As such I would disagree with kolabok, these books are not harmful to kids who have been taught a basic understanding of reality, any more than the Lord of the Rings or Narnia books would be. Now if you oppose children reading fantasy in general that’s your call, though I think that would be much to a child’s detriment.
Frankly there are a lot of times that I would rather my younger siblings and my future children are challenged to think through moral issues through Rowling’s books than much of what is offered as popular ‘Christian’ literature.
Certainly it would be terrible if our children became Wiccan, but I don’t think that’s a danger from the Potter books.

_________________
“In the Church of Jesus Christ there can and should be no non-theologians"

http://www.newwaystheology.blogspot.com/

Mslater,
I do not oppose children reading fantasy. I agree with your statement about them thinking through moral issues as opposed to some Christian lit.
I think kids should read widely in many different genres, but that is a bit off subject.

In Christ,
Childofgrace

I think the real tragedy is when the people don't read with their kiddos, or discuss those things, or watch what they do on the net, or know their curiousities....

There has always been stories of witchcraft, and there will always be people get curious about it. Build them strong and don't worry about what winds of the moment blow their way.

Other good fantasy novels...

Robert Jordan Wheel of Time series,
Terry Goodkind
Melanie Rawn sun runner series.
Mercedes lackey
Terry Brooks

I have about 450 of this genre at home on the shelves. I can probably answer any questions you have about books in this genre Ok I"m pushing it. But I'm game if you want to pick my brain before you have your kiddo's read one. ANd I have some that are good for them, much like c s lewis' books were. It's in a thread on here somewhere.

Kola said...
Deut. 18:10-14
There shall not be found among you anyone xwho burns his son or his daughter as an offering,5 anyone who ypractices divination or ztells fortunes or interprets omens, or aa sorcerer 11 or a charmer or ba medium or a necromancer or cone who inquires of the dead, 12 dfor whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And ebecause of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. 13 You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, 14 for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this.

We seem to have a problem is it right or wrong?


I'd ask, what do most of those words mean in the original tongue? And put the context of what they faced at the time of authorship? It's not hardly anything remotely resembling the H. Potter issues.

Saying H. Potter is a bad idea, because of that verse, is sort of like saying underwear is a bad idea becuase of the thou shalt not commit adultery verses. They are "connected" after-all.

In other words there isn't much of a connect. The verse above deals with peoples who are trying to discern more than God provides. That was the same issue the rich man faced, trying to provide for self other than letting Jesus provide for him.

Xiancatalyst,
Since you have voiced your thoughts on several posts, I won’t bother cutting & pasting any of your comments, I understand your position, yet you seem not to understand mine.
Let me break it down a little more clearly. First of all I am not condoning anyone from reading whatever they wish to indulge in. For the group that is responsible they can determine their threshold of taste in accordance with their hearts desire (that obviously can be good or bad) and let their conscience determine such. For the kids that maybe can not fully read in a comprehensible understanding of what they are reading, the eye gate is the vehicle to the mind. Now I can appreciate a discerning opinion of one young enough to understand the broader picture (very few have hindsight) and decide what is and is not a problematic attraction to the darker side of things, that will come with time no doubt, even better a Biblical perspective in all things first will provide the necessary skills to choose. Now that may include Harry potter, Narnia, Edgar Allan Poe‘s works (probably not this generations choice) and H.G.Wells and so on and so forth. At some point the stuff gets into the macabre & mystery leading to other darker sinister plots and storylines e.g. hell boy (he’s the good bad guy right) ah I can’t think of anything else recently, mostly there all lame anyway, but my point and I am stretching a bit is, what mechanisms prevent our children even if left alone in front of the cable for a moment from being absorbed in all the iconic imagery that the tube and DVD’s push out. You know you can go down to the ToysRUs store and get an Ouija board, what’s the difference?
We really need to watch what our children are watching and decide what appropriate is and what is not. The era of leave it to Beaver is gone. We in America spend more time on the Job & commute, with little time for children. What do we honestly do when we get home, turn on the tube pop in Harry Potter (the kids that have not developed as yet a Biblical perspective to assimilate what is truth and what is fallacy & fantasy) and go cook dinner or wash clothes, only to come back and little Johnny is casting a spell on Suzie, real cute isn’t it. All I’m saying left alone to its own device this kind of exposure will lead to other things more mysterious and darker. Do we really want our children leaving the light of God for the darker things of the enemy? Its bad enough public school has become so secular and invites the things we Christians find contrary to Biblical teachings. It is at this point that a child of an accountable age can decide what the limit is. For the child that knows no boundaries the situation can become exacerbated to the point of losing the child to all the so call harmless venues.
I can only imagine in the teen years what could potentially develop without some Biblically guide assurances that those things mentioned in the text I quoted, do not become a reality in that teenager’s life. If we extract the timeless principle from Deut. we can still apply it to todays standards, there is no difference in the theological statment, the homiletical statment is do not do things that are an abomination to the Lord.
Yet however harmless Harry Potter maybe, it is still witchcraft and sorcery sublimed in a child’s movie and the people that produce this stuff are in it for the profit with little regard for a Christian worldview IMO.

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Kolabok21 Wrote.

Yet however harmless Harry Potter maybe, it is still witchcraft and sorcery sublimed in a child’s movie and the people that produce this stuff are in it for the profit with little regard for a Christian worldview ..

Kolabok21, I'm with you on this subject this is like backing the Rotor Rooter septic tank truck in your front yard and run the hose into your living room and turn it on..And by the way I happen to like your Avatar I'm jealous I did not find it first..

I think it is sad that so many Christians feel the need to attack something like Harry Potter in such a narrow minded way, especialy those who have not read it and are therefore not qualified to comment on the books values. And yes, the producers may have little regard for a Christian worldveiw but Rowling does... Thats like saying Disney makes the Narnia movies so they are anti-Christian, its missing the point.

Can we please stop with the reactionary swipes at Harry Potter and hear from some people on what they thought of the books themselves as literature not the witchcraft issue?

In 30 years I'd be willing to bet Christians look at these books as they do having their kids read Tolkien and laugh that we ever made such a big deal out of it...

_________________
“In the Church of Jesus Christ there can and should be no non-theologians"

http://www.newwaystheology.blogspot.com/

I'd almost take offence at being narrow-minded, I forgive you... To be fair I did a little research on Mrs. Rowlings, not that this is unamious from Wikipedia, but if I am to read into what is printed, I would say she (is) struggling with Christianity as to what you read into the article, is your opinion. She is extremly weathly, brillant and an humanitarin, all equally good qualites, but she is struggling with her belief. Whether taht plays out in her books (movies) I do not know honestly.

Again, it may be simple fantasy with a group of young people attending a wizard school, but it still is what it is, you do not practice those type of things in the light. Young people that can discern the reality from the fantasy, cudo's to them for they understand the christian world view, but for the lost what does it offer them? Hey I can watch the movies and read the books, but it does'nt intrest me, it's almost childish with no depth for me, compared to Tolkien's work it doesn't compare IMO. I would more than likely go watch the Hulk again before I would watch either one the two, though thats just my taste the marvel comic book characters, any way good luck with your quest, not much else to comment on, my thoughts remain the same

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._K._Rowling

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Kola,

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

mslater, is this what you are after:

As an ex-teacher of literature, I would have to say I do not think these novels will attain status as "literature." Already there appears to be waning interest, and I wonder if the release of the next movie will bring with it the turn out of fans that we saw with the earlier movies. Even the for the last couple, I felt it was more: "I've seen the others so may as well well this one" rather than a: "Can't wait to see it" response.

J K Rollings writes a great story - a rollicking yarn. The first one was particularly good, with tight writing, all loose ends tied up, and fast paced action throughout. But as time went on and they became longer, there is a feeling of needing to meet a dead line so that editing was not tight enough. Seven was too many and the plots feel more and more contrived as we move through the series. More pages does not a better book make, nor more books a better saga. On the whole, I like how she writes - but the later novels needed a good edit.

The themes became increasingly dark with each new novel. That is neither good not bad ... just an observation, and one which might impact on how readers might respond to the content. There appeared to be a blurring of good and evil at times, not just because we were in a suspense type genre, but something more fundamental. Again, something to discuss with readers who may need assistance in seeing where it is all going.

She writes about pre-adolescent boys with a feeling of authenticity - you can see that her son is an important part of her life and she understands boys! I like how she portrayed Hermione too, but felt the other older girls were pretty two dimensional. Her portrayal of those early romantic inclinations of adolescence left a lot to be desired - she would have been better to leave it out, in my opinion. Very much a feeling of charicature for me.

Of course the eccentric teachers of Hogwarts are great fun despite their strangeness, and much discussion of a positive nature could come from looking at how those who are "different" are dealt with by both the main characters, and the wizardly world in general. The whole idea of "Muggles' lends itself to much thinking about prejudice and discrimination, and I feel she exposed this dark underside of the utopian wizards very well. Just being magical does not ensure that one is of noble character - indeed, on balance, perhaps quite the opposite, as it brings with it added responsibility for how one handles these special powers.

And of course the last book ... after labouring for a long time ... does a sprint to the end and the last few pages that take us forward in time are disappointing in their brevity, and so not entirely satisfying.

I would have quite liked to teach these novels to an able year 8 or 9 class - 12 to 14 years of age. An able class - because of the darkness of the themes and the complexity of the plots ... and that age because I feel they are not paricularly sutable for those younger than that. Of course there are mature readers who are younger, as well as less sophisticated readers who are much older, but for school purposes, that is where I would place them. Those older will enjoy them, but when it comes to studying literature, there are better works to consider.

Now, it is a while since I read the last one ... so detailed examples to back up my opinions are not likely to come back to this aging mind!

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Avid Reader

“Lord, in my zeal for love of truth, let me not forget the truth about love.” - Thomas Aquinas
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