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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:08 am 
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2 Corinthians 4:17 has the word "hyperbolēn" twice, which is translated as:

New International Version (©1984)
For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.

Weymouth New Testament
For this our light and transitory burden of suffering is achieving for us a preponderating, yes, a vastly preponderating, and eternal weight of glory;

How many times and where this type of construction is used in NT? If someone can list them as much as they remember, I'd be very glad for it helps my translation. I assume repeating the words in English sounds awkward, hence except Weymouth New Testament other english translations just put it in readable english wording.

Looking forward to your advices.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:48 am 
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If you can find it get the book "Lexical Aids for Students of New Testament Greek," by Bruce M. Metzger. The Greek words are listed by usage starting with which occur more than 500 times and then going down the scale to words used only 10 times. This should be able to give you an idea of repetitive word use.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:07 am 
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I'm not sure if what I mean is understood. A word can be used 500 times but can still be never used written twice at the same time as in 2 Corinthians 4:17 where I believe it is written in the original like:
For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that exceed exceed them all.

Or
τὸ γὰρ παραυτίκα ἐλαφρὸν τῆς θλίψεως καθ’ ὑπερβολὴν εἰς ὑπερβολὴν αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης κατεργάζεται ἡμῖν, (The questioned part being:....hyperbolēn eis hyperbolēn.....)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:30 am 
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I don't personally know of any resources (off hand) that would provide such information. What you are looking at is a form of superlative usage by doubling the comparative terms. In this case, the terms are qualified with preceding and mediating prepositions (καθ’...εἰς...; "from...to" as a literalistic rendering). In this case, rendering both terms does not seem to do justice to the sense of the phrase which simply gives exceedingly, exceeding emphasis ( :) ).

If you have access to something like Bible Works you could do a search of terms in a similar construction, but you would still be forced to sift through what it provides in order to differentiate the reason for double occurrences.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:42 am 
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I am starting to think that this type structure is similar to Ps 118:13 and 11:1.
baagii wrote:
1. Ps 11:1 seems to have repeated verb in Hebrew: "Run, run to your mountain like a bird." Am i right? Or is it plural verb?

2. Another example: Ps 118:13 (also verses 11, 18):

Here Net Bible comment is: "n Heb “pushing, you pushed me.” .


Obadiah wrote:
In Psalm 11:1, the ketiv is plural and the qere is singular.

(The ketiv is the actual written form in the text; the qere is the Massoretic correction.)

There's no repetition of the verb. Perhaps you're reading both forms side by side?

Psalm 118:13 & 18 exemplify a very common form of emphasis in Hebrew, where the author uses two different forms of the same verb (the infinitive absolute and a finite form) together to intensify the action. Psalm 118:11 is somewhat unusual: סַבּוּנִי and סְבָבוּנִי appear to be alternate forms for the same verb (3rd masculine plural qal perfect of סבב with 1st singular suffix). Why the same form with variant spellings is repeated as it is here, I don't know, but the repetition is reflected at least as early as LXX.

I have to assume Paul, the jew of jew, transported the above type wording shown at least in some parts of Psalms and used in his own mother language to the greek of NT (if greek was the 1st language NT is written on). So I tried to know if this happens in NT as often as it does in Psalms or OT.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:43 am 
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Because on the post: viewtopic.php?f=201&t=19956 Antipater answered as below, I see Ps 11:1 is not relevant here as it has the K and Q parts you mentioned:

Antipater wrote:
On Psalm 139:6, the brackets are there to note that one of the readings is the Kethib (what is written) and the other is the Qere (what is read). I've underlined the K and Q because you will also note that there is a standalone כ kaph and ק qoph in the Hebrew text you have copied (they are represented by the English letters K and Q). The translator always has to make a choice between these two. They do not both properly belong to the text.The Qere is intended as a potential replacement for the Kethib, but is not required. They are left in the text as notations for reading. In this particular case it is basically just a matter of orthography (how it is written and therefore pronounced) as far as I can tell. In either case, it simply means "wonderful" or as some have made the implicit explanation "too wonderful". Both texts (NASB and NET) use the same Hebrew as a basis, it was merely a choice of translational equivalence and not a matter of a different Hebrew word.


As for 2 Cor 4:17 which was reason for this post, it has no K and Q parts. So I ended up thinking that it's like 118:13 or Lamentation 5:22, but not like Ps 11:1 as I presumed.

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