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What happens if there are a man and a woman, and one of them prints out a personally made marriage certificate. They both sign it, but the places for the witnesses' signatures are left blank. God was called upon somewhere within the wording on the certificate (i.e. the vow was before God).

Is this a valid marriage in the eyes of God (for the purpose of this I don't care whether it is in the eyes of the government or not -- but it isn't in the particular location this took place)? Obviously it is a sin not to follow through on that which was vowed to/before the Lord, but what I want to know is whether it is a binding marriage in His eyes. Any biblical insight?

There are other circumstances regarding it which may cause you to think that it is invalid... but as for now I wanted to start with this much and see what would be said.

-squash9

Welcome Squash9! I think your question traces back to what exactly is marriage? Is it just a certificate? Is it a vow (if so, what exactly has to be said in this vow)? I find it interesting that the only description of marriage left by Christ is Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:5-9. He described it as the following:

1) Leaving of father and mother
2) Be united with his wife, being one in flesh

Yes I do believe marriage in one sense is a legal title, but more simply our Lord has described marriage as a relationship - an unrevokable committment to one another until 'death do us part'. I think it helps to have witnesses vouch for this committment (accountability), but I don't see it as a requirement for a marriage in God's eyes.

Just my 2 cents (from an unmarried person )

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Hi Derek C (and potentially others),

Please let me add more information to clarify things:

I am the man in this story. It happened several years back in a foreign country. As mentioned, there were no human witnesses, nor was there a minister of the gospel, any ceremony, any civil paperwork (etc.), her parents were not informed of this (nor were mine) although naturally they knew we were in a relationship.

I was a professing Christian (I say that because my life was dominated by sin and I frankly have no solid reason to think that I did trust in Christ then -- but God knows either way). She is/was an unbeliever.

I can't say that we considered ourselves as married. Although I remember thinking about looking for witnesses to fill in the rest of the paper, I'm pretty sure I knew (thought) in my heart that it was not really a marriage. Almost immediately afterward, we actually started a process of applying to bring her to the United States...not as a wife, but as a fiance.

I don't remember the exact wording of the vows on the paper but it was pretty much a standard wedding vow type of text.

Please understand, as a side note, that I don't mean that I don't care about the government...but rather that I'm not trying to discern what is a marriage in their eyes (and I already know that this is not in the location that it took place) but simply want to see what I ought to do as unto the Lord.

I guess I just want to know what to do...and I've certainly prayed about it but, perhaps from my hardness of hearing, I can't discern which way to go. Is it, in God's eyes, already a marriage and I must commit to this girl for life? Is it not yet a marriage but because of the vow something that I need to turn into a marriage anyway? Or is that last point negated since she is an unbeliever and we aren't to vow things that force us to sin (in this case marrying an unbeliever)? If, on the other hand, I'm not required to marry/remain married with her, what should I do to convince my conscience that that not being with her (or marrying someone else) is the right thing in the eyes of the Lord?

I'm just so confused...and have no one but myself to blame!

Another addendum:

We're not living together any longer. This took place in 2002. 2003 was the last time I physically saw her, as I was unable to find a way to legally stay an extended period of time in her country. We kept a relationship of some sort (we thought of it as boyfriend/girlfriend) until roughly the end of 2005.

And as a side note: not that it matters toward being married or not, but we never had any children.

So you have not communicated with her since 2005?

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Philippines? Norway? Russia?

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The way I understand it, back in the "good ol' days" (i.e. Bible times), marriage was not something that involved a preacher, priest or government official. There was no requirement for a license or certificate as the secular and religious authorities had nothing to do with marriage. If anything, marriage was a family thing, arranged and "officiated" by the parents, ... or perhaps nobody at all (Judges 21:16-23, with the caviat of vs. 25). However accomplished, marriage was still a legal union even without the legal system getting involved in the beginning. The Old Testament contains laws pertaining to married couples (i.e. for adultery and divorce), but no procedure on the proper way to get married.

For some reason, we have made marriage a bit more complicated that I think it should be. I don't find anything inherently wrong with writing out a certificate and having no witnesses (or even not having a certificate at all). However, that is not the way our society does things, and since the law is involved, we should strive not to set stumbling blocks towards others (1 Corinthians 10:32, 2 Corinthians 6:3, Romans 13:1, 1 Peter 2:13-15). If while in another country another method of marriage is acceptable, then that is fine in my mind.

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Andrew Bernhardt
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The Lord asks us to follow the laws of the land until they conflict with His laws. In 99.9% of situations there is no valid ethical/religious justification not to marry in the eyes of the State. Anyone reading this isn't in the %0.01 percent by the way...

R

It is certainly understandable how this would weigh heavily on your heart.

There seem to be more than one thing that need be clarified to appropriately answer your concern:

1.) Did you commit your life in marriage to her in a vow/covenant (the document seems to indicate so, but I was looking for clarification)?
2.) In this foreign country, is this certificate/paper considered a legal document?
3.) Has she married since then or is she currently waiting for your return?
4.) Have you obligated yourself to go back to her in any fashion while still in communication with her before 2005?
5.) What are your intentions in getting this clarification (ie. getting married to someone, seeking forgiveness...)

It would appear the only way to clarify your actual circumstances would be by contacting her to verify with her what is understood about your current relationship in my humble opinion.

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"I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had no where else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all about me, seemed insufficient for the day." ~Abraham Lincoln

I agree with Niemand3D
In the Bible, a marriage is a covenant between three: man, woman and God (although sometimes extended family was involved, such as in arranged marriages, or if the potential husband entered into a covenant with the bride's father for the dowry). Although you said you did not consider yourself to be married, you intimated that you lived together for a year and continued to have a "relationship" for another 2. To me, that constitutes that you were/are married (in some sort of fashion). I think you need to find this person, and perhaps give her a "certificate of divorce" if you no longer wish to be married to her.

I agree with Andy, we do live in complicated times.

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Στηθι εδραιος, ως ακμων τυπτομενος. - Ignatius |II Timothy 4:2| All Scripture is NKJV, unless a translation from the Greek text or otherwise noted.
M.A. Theological Studies (New Testament), Faith Seminary, Tacoma WA
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I'm waiting for the author's reply about these countries. Since I'm from the Philippines, maybe there's a way to help him out looking for his gf or ex-gf. (Hope there's no discrimination behind these ?s)

Marriage is quite a sensitive issue for me cos I didn't have a good one. I got separated for almost 3 years now but I never had regrets about choosing to be a single mom.

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Angelee Pogay
It's about "WHO" matters the most.

Angelee,

No discrimination, either in the USA, or with me. My steady girlfriend in college was a Filipina.
A good friend was a Filipino missionary from Panay (Visayan?). I used to know some Tagalog too!

Grace and Peace

_________________
Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB

Hi again Serendipity,

That's great! Good to know that. I'm at Mindanao and we speak Visayan / Tagalog too. I'm glad to know about some foreigners, especially you, appreciating Fils.

Hope Squash will be guided through with the people's posts and advices here.

God will bless you all... always..

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Angelee Pogay
It's about "WHO" matters the most.

The only thing I would see about this if you live in the USA there could be legal issues like trying to get benefits for your family and with the IRS also..