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Hi guys,

Let me preface this post with this:

This is another theory of the age of the earth and it is entirely speculation and I am posting as an individual not as a member of the staff for the forums or bible.org

Ok that said I would like to ask for all you scientific type people to answer the poll and then post your reasons on whether or not this theory has any merit Thanks y'all.



Now if you need anything clarified please let me know I tried to lay the theory out there clearly but I'm sure I have confused the issue somehow. lol I would like all your scientific type minds, those with the scientific training (Like Michael et al) to give your opinions on whether or not you believe that this is at least a possibility. If you have scriptures that would be great however like I said this is entirely speculation on my part...

Looking forward to your thoughts.

jennifer

I think Jennifer that it is possible that God created the world and Adam/Eve in this way. Nothing really wrong with such speculative thought I suppose. The problem for me is when speculative theological thought goes beyond what it claim into factual statements.

I will first answer theologically (I have more theological qualifications than scientific) I dont think that this is a reasonabel interpretation of Genesis as it is too whimsical to follow any rigorous principles of hermeneutics. I would reject the standard Gap Theory on the same grounds, but I wouldnt be vociferous in my opposition. However it may be helpful to some.

As far as the science goes , it appears to cope with geological time but would not be convincing to those who know their geology well.

So I am not convinced but find it much better all round than normal YE ideas

Thanks

Michael

The problem is the literalness of the six 24 hour periods v. the scientific record. He could not have created every form of animal within six 24 hour period, even billions of years ago, since none of the life we have now was the same life that was here 60 million years ago. Something like 98% of all the species that have ever lived have gone extinct. And most of what we have today didn't even have earlier versions in the earliest layers of fossils.

The other problem with the 6,000 years (or even 10,000 years) is that we have evidence of humans going back MUCH longer than that. So, it can not be that we the only two humans sequestered in an isolated Garden up until that time.

If the gist of what you are proposing is true, then it is very plausible to be both a literal 6 day creationist and an old earther?

_________________
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Rom 1:22

Vance wrote

So Vance are you claiming scientific infallability? And/or are you saying that instantaneous creation is too much for an omnipotent God?

_________________
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Rom 1:22

I find this kind of comment wearing, as it is clear you are putting up a straw man

Hi Jennifer,

I am a ye. I think your idea is very interesting, and I've toyed with it before, except that I don't know how to reconcile it with a literal understanding of the genealogy in Genesis 5:



This would seem to me to speak against an exceedingly long lifespan of Adam.

Love in Christ,
Mark

Archangel,

I am saying neither. It is not a question of what God CAN do, since we all agree that He could have done it however He wanted. He could have created everything in six seconds rather than six days or six billion years. We all agree on an equally omnipotent God. The question is HOW and WHEN this wholly omnipotent God actually did His creative work.

And, no, I do not claim scientific infallibility. She asked for those familiar with the scientific evidence on these issues to point out where the scientific objections would be. I pointed out what the scientific objections would be, since what I said is exactly what the scientific community in general (and 99% of the scientists in particular) would say.

Hi there Mark, but couldn't his age, or should I say his aging, have begun AFTER the fall and not before? So basically he lived (and aged) 130 outside of the garden before he had Seth...

Like I said it is speculation but for Adam to have had time to be lonely and to name all the animals and such it would have to have been longer than a day. We really don't have any idea how long Adam was in the garden before Eve was created...

Is it possible that God created other homo sapiens outside the garden? yes, it is also possible that they all died out long before the fall.

So IF they were in the garden for a VERY long time, the extinction of the animals that Vance mentioned could have come and gone before the fall. In the above theory it doesn't state that God made every single species of animal but the general basics were created in that 6 day period. With all the natural laws in place for the creation to continue.

The thing is a lot seems to happen in the first few chapters of genesis and I think we would all agree that God didn't tell us everything (or even close to it) lol

Hey there Michael, can you please elaborate on this statement that you made:

I dont think that this is a reasonabel interpretation of Genesis as it is too whimsical to follow any rigorous principles of hermeneutics

I must admit I had to chuckle a bit because usually the only place I hear the word "whimsical" is on HGTV j/k


Jennifer

Gilding the lily a bit here, Archangel, after Vance himself has replied, but the objection here isn't about what God could have done, but about what the evidence shows he has done.

Jennifer Dent wrote:
First, the name of the humans (male and female) created in Genesis 1 is adam, the same name used for the man formed in Genesis 2. Second, God blesses these humans and tells them to fill the earth, and no mention is made of their extinction (an argument from silence, but given the import of the event trying to be inserted in the silence, I think it has some merit). Third, the Genesis 2 account begins when there are no humans as well as no plants (and I would suggest also no beasts or birds), so a larger extinction would be required than just humans.

Fourth, Jesus seemed to conflate the two accounts of humanity's creation in Mark 10:6-9 where he quotes both Genesis 1:27 and 2:24. This would be strange if those two accounts were speaking of entirely different beginnings of the human species.

PS: I voted "Yes" in the poll. Lots of views are possible, and I wouldn't consider this particular one the strangest of the lot. But, neither do I find it convincing or compelling.

If one takes a literal view of Genesis 1 and 2, then not only is it possible to assume that Adam was in the garden a long time, it may be necessary.

Genesis 2:


How long would it have taken to name every animal, every bird?

And then there is the literal view of this passage from Genesis 1:



The earth could be very old, since it was created "in the beginning." After that, on the first day, came light.

So a literal view of Genesis 1 and 2 can easily lead to a conclusion of a very ancient earth and a long period of time that Adam was in the garden.

_________________
Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

By the way, I think we could estimate the minimum time that Adam would have been in the garden. All we need to do is estimate the total number of animals he would have named, determine a rate at which he could name them (allowing for some breaks for personal hygiene and sleeping), and do the numbers.

We would have to include all the species that exist and the species that have gone extinct.

_________________
Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

Cobra,

I don't have any idea how long Adam & Eve were in the garden prior to their fall. The Bible does not say-

However, unless the interactions between male and female of the human race have changed significantly since then, it likely wouldn't take too long before a little Adam was running around- particularly given their sans fig leaf state.... After all, the Lord God did command them to multiply!

FWIW, my orthodox Jewish friends tell me that their tradition states that Adam & Eve did not make it one week before their fall.