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so that must mean the Baptists have it

A bit more data.





My bias is - - the odds seem to favor following the St. Malachy prophecy.

If this is done, then - - this would be seen as a "Self fulfilled prophecy". They picked Peter, because someone said - - Peter was first - so shall be last.. sort of thing.
All can now go Ooooooh.

To me, the problem will come - - if this is to be the LAST, and if the people see the selection of Peter as being the LAST - - - - - in the end - if they do choose Peter - - - the people then may abandon - because the game is over...

This being said - - this next Pope election will be quite interesting. A vote for Peter Turkson, could be seen as a vote for the end of the RCC?

Bert

It does, in the Bible ONLY though...

And there is NO perfect interpretor of that, especially Church of Rome!

And the Lod did keep His own true churchsince time of Chrsit, its those who continued to hold to the Apsotoloc NT doctrines/practice, not that of Rome!

Yahweh1,

Which of the 300 competing Protestant sects and gospels that arose by the end of the 16th century is the true Church?


Campion

_________________
Contemplare et contemplata aliis tradere. - St. Thomas Aquinas

yes, in Jesus -- however, you won't find an exact theological replica in any church -- so your premise is faulty -- Catholic doctrine has changed so they can't claim any sort of mystical correctness -- your collective group of Christians get far more right than wrong so i'm fine with that, despite the Inquisition & other not so nice episodes -- we're all an imperfact lot & our church histories reflect that till Glorification

there will be a last Pope -- whether the next 1 is that person or not is insignificant -- tomorrow isn't promised so let's focus on the now

There were true Chrsitians in each 'group", but there has always been predersved a faithful remnant in each groupm that knew the real truths and gospel...

there wer catholics saved by same Gospel throughout the years, but IF they pubically recante dof false catholic dogma/doctrine, usually got prison/sword/ or fire!

God sent forth the reformation , by allowing certain men to rediscover the nearly lost true Gospel of christ, but the catholic church instead of repenting of her falsehoods became even more adament against truth!

Am a bit uncertain as to WHY we keep getting sidetracked.

Baptist vs. Catholic vs. Episc. vs. Presp. vs. Christmatics vs. whomever - really does not have much to do with this subject... of is the next pope to be the last pope.. I really LIKE this subject.

Anyway - - as I showed.. (hate to quote my own quotes..)



OK. Odds are 4-1 that this Peter will be the next post - - directly following Malachy's prophecy.




Again. The book-makers are saying that Peter Turkson has 4-1 odds of being the next Pope. They make these odds - - for several reasons, one of which is the Malachy prophecy.
This prophecy shows - this NEXT pope, will be the last. - -

So I see this thread/question, as virtually earth shaking. One should really set up a complete BOARD - - to examine the ramifications.
Will the people abandon the RCC? Will the RCC meekly disappear? Will it merge with another, like the EO, so it can continue without a Pope? Will fund-raising be effected? Will missions have trouble? What can we do to help?

Sorry there for my rant - - but - - I MOSTLY consider Catholics as - - non-biblically trained Christians. There are some MIGHTY good folks there. Their Eschatology - - actually is QUITE solid - as - it is based on - - tradition - and Pope's writings. This gives them - - perhaps a somewhat flawed perspective, but - - one based on 1000 years of tradition, hence - it is a tough nut to crack.

but they are finding themselves in - - possibly - - a bad way now. Hosted up on their own Petard, so to speak.
They FOLLOWED their own Saints/Prophets/Popes - - for 1000 years. And now, because they HAVE maintained - - they are now stuck with following one of their Saint's pronouncements, that forecasts their doom. ??????

Does anyone here see this? Or am I off in la la land?

Bert

That majority of Catholics don't pay any attention to conspiracy theories/prophecies... if you asked an average catholic this, they would have no idea what you are talking about... they wouldn't know who malarky is and they wouldn't believe that this is the last pope even if you told them it was prophesied by someone that is called a saint by the church.. it sure isn't a saint I've ever heard of up until now...

Ristenk,

I agree with you. The average Catholic in the pew could not answer the question "What is God?" let alone "What is St. Malachy's prophecy?"

Campion

_________________
Contemplare et contemplata aliis tradere. - St. Thomas Aquinas

Hello restenk, Campion,

Hopefully - - you two do not live near me - - and you both live - perhaps in a big city? Mostly deal with kids, or young folks?
I live in the country - - near Kansas City, and the people around here, are pretty sharp. Even the Catholics!!! ha.

Typically - - I would put most of the older folks - about 4 steps above the local pastors - so far as both doctrines and wisdom goes.

Now these wise ones - will shut up when the Pastor is around - - as - - they do not wish to show him up, and - - they are smart enough to let HIM take HIS position... and they will then let HIM try to lead - - as HE is typically getting PAID to talk (and they are not) - but - they really are NOT that stupid. They have learned - - to look first, and study all sides of the issues - and gather information from unlikely sources - before they leap. Now I have not yet TALKED to them about this issue - as - I have not thought about how to approach it - - but.. they are NOT either stupid or ignorant.

There ARE gaps in their knowledge base, of course.. but - - while they may not know what
2nd Timothy 3:16 says, off the top of their heads - - - - - odd things like Malarkey has probably caught their attention, over the years.

Ha. A Missouri Mule, may ACT stupid - - - but - you really are not safe around them, until you figure out they are smarter than you are - - and LESS forgiving.

Bert

Bert,

I live in a large city in the Southeastern U.S.

Are you referring to Catholic pastors?

I would contend the average Catholic in the pew certainly has access to the Church's teaching at his or her fingertips, but whether or not they seek that out is a whole other story. The average Catholic in the pew simply does not know his faith. For example, Catholics recite the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed every Sunday at Mass. There is a very important line in that Creed which says of Christ, we believe he is "consubstantial" with the Father. How many Catholics, if asked, could explain what that means? How many Catholics know the entire Christian faith is based on that word?

Campion

_________________
Contemplare et contemplata aliis tradere. - St. Thomas Aquinas

Hello Campion,
Sidetrack again... Let me see.... Pope, last - - maybe.

Relative to your question, about Pastors. No. I was talking about the Old people/ or the elderly folks - - who have been through it - - vs. most pastors of virtually any faith - who are NOT elderly - but who KNOW their own doctrines, but who do not know - - people, or other faiths/where they agree/where they disagree, etc..

Most folks, will act stupid, like the Missouri Mule. Gets them out of work, you see. Lets them hide. Lets them off the hook. If the PREACHER tells their wife to obey - - they will smile, cause then THEY did not have to tell her that, so to speak. Lets THEM off the hook.
Doctrines? Act stupid again. They use Ignorance of the law as their excuse - so to speak.

Hard - to Impossible to get them re-directed, and moving with a full heart.

But - yes, they, like the Missouri Mule - - are not stupid, or ignorant. Relative to the word "consubstantial", I imagine when they say that word, they think - - "Like father, like son." And I am not totally sure, that is totally wrong. Catches the drift at least?

But again - I do not ever think you, or anyone else here on the board, are stupid. Perhaps missing a didget or so - - or perhaps are pushing platforms or doctrines - - but - - in general, when it comes right down to it - - they mostly DO catch the drift, or the smell, or the taste of what is going on. God's spirit can drift in..
Was at the grocery store two nights ago. Nice lady - at Wal-Mart, checking me out. I started humming - "Oh when the Saints" - and she joined in - and we stuck in a word now and then - and pretty quickly we were singing together. Not loud, but - the music and the thought and the heart was there. Did she know "consubstantial?" I doubt it. But - - - is she destined to hell for that lack of knowledge? Somehow, I doubt it.

Oh well. I suspect - in the end - Malarkey is somewhat like that. A great many have heard - I think - that there is a Saint who prophesied the Popes in order. Whether they know his name, or not??? what is that??? Are they aware that - this may be the last one??? Perhaps not. Or perhaps a few are suspicious it may be??? Or do they just - have the disquiet feeling, or smell this disquiet sound?
I suspect - We shall see. Probably some Fighting Baptist will start sounding some horn about it - over the Radio waves - educating/deceiving?

Crazy world.
May the Great and Holy God, and his Son, bless thee.

Bert

Current new pope from Argentina....


1. His given surname is Peitro (“Peter”).

2. His family immigrated to Argentina from Italy…hence he’s Roman.

3. And most disturbing, he has long been a member of the Society of Jesus, the Jesuits.

4. The authors of Petrus Romanus, a book that I have been reading, agree that his pedigree fits, Peter the Roman.

From Wikipedia online:

Bergoglio studied at the archdiocesan seminary Inmaculada Concepción in Villa Devoto,Buenos Aires City, and after three years entered the Society of Jesus on 11 March 1958.[12] Father Bergoglio completed his final stage of spiritual formation as a Jesuit, tertianship, atAlcalá de Henares, Spain, and took his perpetual vows in the Society of Jesus on 22 April 1973. [27] He was named Provincial Superior of the Society of Jesus in Argentina on 31 July 1973 and served until 1979. [28] After the completion of his term of office, in 1980 he was named the rector of the seminary in San Miguel (it is unclear which one), and served in that capacity until 1986. He spent several months at the Sankt Georgen Graduate School of Philosophy and Theology in Frankfurt, Germany, while considering possible dissertationtopics, [29] before returning to Argentina to serve as a confessor and spiritual director to the Jesuit community in Córdoba. [30]

So - - - ... Just thought the info was interesting to have.

Bert

I thought his name is Jorge which would be translated as George...?

Hello,

You COULD be right. Do not know. I got this above from a Jan Markel web-site.

Bert