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context and culture are very important, as well as reading "roundly" and not just at one point.

This is true even of our study of the Bible.

If I picked certain passages in the NT, I could make a case for Paul being anti-semitic .... unless of course I balanced it by what Paul says in other cases.

So what have we got ..... Luther, being human, made mistakes. Among these mistakes is 'anti-semitism'. Does this mean we completely disregard all the good things he did and wrote? (or as Randy said, throw the baby out with the bath-water)

If we apply this standard to David, then we should not read Psalms any more because David was an adulterer and a murderer.

Peter is suspect because he disowned and even cursed Christ.

As you begin to read widely (even the Bible itself) you will find it to be true that no-one is perfect, no-one is always right, everyone makes mistakes.

Would you like to discuss one of Luther's well known works? for example "Bondage of the Will" ..... RPM made some articles available for download

BTW .... this is a great site to access Christian writings from previous centuries
http://www.reformedperspectives.org/

The Bondage of the Will By Martin Luther
http://reformedperspectives.org/newfiles/mar_luther/mar_luther.BW_000A.html

The Bondage of the Will By Martin Luther
PREFACE BY THE TRANSLATOR
http://reformedperspectives.org/newfiles/mar_luther/mar_luther.BW_000B.html

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Lets review,
You opened the thread with a great question.

Marv answers giving you the historical facts which include the background of the situation. He points to Luther's life in contrast to the points made about the SINGLE writing being used against Luther. Marv ends with a good observation:
You reply with the charge that Marv's point is that it's OK to persecute Jews. (Completely misrepresenting Marv's points)
You then follow up with the ill-concieved observation that Luther didn't read the Bible much. (An interesting charge which indicates your lack of research.) It seems your basis is the SINGLE writing of his among many others. (again, Bad research)
You then follow with how you're building your theology and quoting scriptures.
Then comes another post which you say you don't buy a cultural argument (BTW no one argued theology should be based on the culture of any time) and then gave some off-the-wall examples which are apples to steak comparisomes to the topic at hand.
You then post that you "know what Luther wrote" (Which you obviously do not. To correct you again, you merely know a small portion of what, I'm guessing, another said he wrote.)
Your next post seems to allude to Luther being Satan and then asks why shouldn't we..."destroy synagogues and kill Jews?"
Then you say you're tired of this "don't judge thing" and that it "doesn't make any sense."

IMHO it is you who are not being sensible.
It is clear that you need to take a look at the broader picture of Martin Luther before you judge his character and life. It is obvious that you know nothing of the man nor do you understand the time in which he lived. Untill then, discussing this topic with you seems to be quite moot at the moment.

(I agree with Dinah who posted above just before my reply was completed. Her links are Grrrreat!!!)
Blessings,
Randy

was Adolf Hitler lutheran??? and i bet nearly whole germany was at that time!!! i dont think it is coincidence!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_i ... tin_Luther

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Hear, O Israel: The Lord our G-d, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Alex, you seem to be bent on slinging mud here. But to what end? The purpose of this forum is to be a safe place for those who are genuinely searching for answers concerning the Christian faith to come and interact with believers. Beyond that, its purpose is to further the ministry and vision of Bible.org by helping one another in evangelism and the Christian maturing process so that we all will finish the task that Christ expects us to accomplish here on earth (see here). You say you are a Christian, so how is it that your castigation of Luther and, it now appears, Lutherans in general serves to help anyone? Whom do you think will be edified by these arguments and why are you making them?

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im simply for the truth . always people like to remember their nation or important people as good and as heroes and they dont want to listen truth(or some kind of evidence ) that tell us all about this people how good they were and were they truly christian?!!

in general it seems satan also want to help everyone!!

im trying to discuss topic with people, maybe ill change my mind on some issues and will benefit those who listen to me!

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Hear, O Israel: The Lord our G-d, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Who's truth would that be??? I assume that would be the truth you accept.

I guess you are the one who defines whether or not a person is truly a Christian. IMO I praise God that you're not God!


I assume your remark is applied to Gideon's post. If that is so, Please leave.

Blessings,
Randy

can i use here for my excuse culturally different background that i have is different than yours???!!

i dont know how to quote people and use some fancy editing i just type what i think!!

peace

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Hear, O Israel: The Lord our G-d, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Marv wrote: For a bit of background, the Jews were spreading pamphlets that said Mary was a prostitute and Jesus' father was the village blacksmith. It was basically thrown in Luther's face with a what are you going to do about this sort of statement. So yes, Luther spoke quite strongly against them. Supposedly proving he was wanting to murder all the Jews.

i would like a source for that statement pls!?

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Hear, O Israel: The Lord our G-d, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

i apologise for statement

in general it seems satan also want to help everyone!!

very sorry brother i misread yr post, gideon! very sorry to other brothers too my mistake i read to quickly!

peace

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Hear, O Israel: The Lord our G-d, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Adolph Hitler gave conflicting statements over the years. I think it really would be safe to say he didn't belong to any Christian group. He was raised Roman Catholic.

Germany always had large areas where Lutheran dominated and large areas where Roman Catholic dominated. It went back to the treaty at Augsburg which designated that an area would be the religion of the ruler.

If you try to reason to arrive at history, you will be consistently wrong.

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Marv
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Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!

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Martin Luther actually references it in the introduction to "The Jews and Their Lies". Didn't you read it? Unfortunately we do not have a copy of the pamphlet today.

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Marv
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ill leave this forum brothers so dont worry about replying because it is kinda pointless if i cant express my thoughts that i have on certain issues!

so lets God's peace and Grace of Jesus Jesus Christ be with you!

and keep yrself from idols!

alexey

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Hear, O Israel: The Lord our G-d, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Apology accepted. Alexey, if you are still here, I invite you to stay. All we ask is that you abide by the Code of Conduct for the forum.

Cale

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Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!

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so here it means he got only evidence he makes up or what other evidences that Jewish people are evil???

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Hear, O Israel: The Lord our G-d, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.